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Talk about the different aspects of your tow car and tow advice.

Tow vehicle Tarra change

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22 Aug 2017 @ 13:21:29 pm
Pierre Pretorius
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Is there anybody with experience to change the Tarra of a tow vehicle. I have installed a few after market accessories and I would like to update the new weight on my vehicle to enable me to tow a caravan with a higher GVM legally.
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22 Aug 2017 @ 13:47:21 pm
Back Packer
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This is an interesting one, I will watch it. Isuzu's latest model has a much higher tow rating than the model I have, (more than just a few kg) would be interesting to find out if this would be possable.

"Children have never been good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them."
-James Baldwin-
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22 Aug 2017 @ 14:20:26 pm
Anonymous

Pierre, ek stel voor jy gaan na jou naaste lisensie kantoor en kry die Mass Change Notification vorms daar.

Dan met die kwitansies / bewysse van die verandetings gaan jy ha 'n geakrediteurde weegbrug toe, weeg jou voertuig, kry die weegbrug sertifikaat, en gaan toets gronde toe. Sit jou voertuig weer deur die toets (die gaan jy moet doen) kry 'n brief van due vervaardiger wat sê dat die voertuig kan met veiligheid daai nuwe Tarra en BVM hanteer, dan gaan jy, met al die dokumente, lisensie kantoor toe.

Daar gaan hulle jou verder help. Dit vat so twee tot drie weke om te verander.

Bo genoemde is as jou voertuig met meer as 5% verander het, sou die tarra minder as 5% verandering  wees, behoort die plaaslike lisensie kantoor jou daar en dan te kan help, na die weegbrug en toets sertifikate.

Die aste en bande se dra vermoë gaan 'n groot rol speel.

Hoop jy kom reg.

 

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22 Aug 2017 @ 15:42:13 pm
Butts
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Pierre, jy raak 'n sensitiewe onderwerp aan - sensitief vir al daardie 4x4 manne wat hulle bakkies en SNV'e so toegooi onder bybehore.   Ek het self al die 4x4 uitstallers by skoue, soos die Beeld-skou, gevra oor die proses om die tarra-gewig te verander en kry dan net sulke leë-oog kyke (blank eyes stare).

Min mense besef dat sodra die lisensie of te wel tarra-gewig verander word deur permanente byvoegings soos die ekstra brandstoftenk, staalbuffers voor en agter, wenas, tweede spaarwiel, ens, dan moet die voertuig herregistreer word. 

Hou ook die onderwerp dop om die antwoord te lees.

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22 Aug 2017 @ 17:03:24 pm
Danie-SLK
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Theo dankie vir die inligting hierbo. Ek was ook nie bewus as jy wel binne jou GVM bly nie maak dit nie saak as jy heelwat bybehore aangesbring het - al is dit van 'n permanente aard.

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22 Aug 2017 @ 17:49:46 pm
neef Herman
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Ons was al baie in die rondte oor die sleepgewig, maar dat slegs Tarre van voertuig, die se sleepgewig vermoee bepaal, is ek nou nog nie seker van nie.
My voertuig dui die Tarre, GVM, en dan die GCM aan, op vervaardiger se plaatjie.
Om T te verander ,myns insiens, kan dalk net lisensiegelde verhoog, die GVM gaan ook nie verander nie, en die GCM bly dieselfde.
Pierre, loer bietjie wat se jou plaatjie.
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22 Aug 2017 @ 19:58:12 pm
Leon
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Ons was al baie in die rondte oor die sleepgewig, maar dat slegs Tarre van voertuig, die se sleepgewig vermoee bepaal, is ek nou nog nie seker van nie.
My voertuig dui die Tarre, GVM, en dan die GCM aan, op vervaardiger se plaatjie.
Om T te verander ,myns insiens, kan dalk net lisensiegelde verhoog, die GVM gaan ook nie verander nie, en die GCM bly dieselfde.
Pierre, loer bietjie wat se jou plaatjie.

I would like to underline what Herman said.  According to the road trafic act you can get past the Tara weight problem by just adding extra service brakes to the caravan.

If you want to know what this looks like go to your nearest trafic department and ask various officials to explain what service brakes on a caravan looks like.

The answers you will get will help you to decide if you would worry about this Tara weight problem further or not.

However the  aspect Herman talks about is more of a concern as these weights are used at weigh bridges to determine whether your tow vehicle is more than capable to tow your caravan or not.

 

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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22 Aug 2017 @ 20:43:52 pm
Anonymous
My logick is, if your vehicle is capable to control your caravan as is, no matter the circumstances, leave same as is.
This might become a very long process with less hair or maybe some more grey hair.
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23 Aug 2017 @ 08:29:17 am
Anonymous

Just bear in mind, if the mods are exceeding the payload, and you get pulled over at a weighbridge, you have problems.

The GVM of any vehicle on the road is subject to our road laws.  Tarre does not play such a use role as far as anything other than license fees are concerned.  

Your towed vehicle's GVM (in this case a caravan) must be less, or equal to the tow vehicle's Tarre, and shall not exceed the manufacturer's specifications.

Once you start adding mods to your tow vehicle, you are actually decreasing the payload.

Payload includes fuel, (in excess of 10 liter) passengers, and all luggage, plus all mods.

Leon's statement is as close as it gets, but, depending on the extra weight added, it could be problematic.

I would take the tow vehicle to a weighbridge if I am unsure of its true "new" tarre, and thus the payload available.

Should your axles and tyres allow for an increase in GVM, go for that increase instead, but, keep your caravan's true GVM in mind.

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23 Aug 2017 @ 09:39:18 am
Pierre Pretorius
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My tow vehicle Tarra is 1900kg, the caravan GVM on is 2100kg. As I understand I cannot tow the caravan legally. I have installed a few accessories(tow bar, canopy, long range tank etc.) that increased the tow vehicle Tarra to 2150kg. Does it make sense to rather update the tow vehicle Tarra on E-natis and pay the increased license costs than install service brakes at even more costs and future maintenance costs.
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23 Aug 2017 @ 11:29:55 am
Chris Centurion
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Pierre what is the GVM and GCM of your tow vehicle?
Moeg geploeg.
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23 Aug 2017 @ 11:31:33 am
Bostoe
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Bie intersant draad hierdie so baie om ingedagte te hou
Haak daai wa kamp bly koning
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23 Aug 2017 @ 14:15:15 pm
Leon
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My tow vehicle Tarra is 1900kg, the caravan GVM on is 2100kg. As I understand I cannot tow the caravan legally. I have installed a few accessories(tow bar, canopy, long range tank etc.) that increased the tow vehicle Tarra to 2150kg. Does it make sense to rather update the tow vehicle Tarra on E-natis and pay the increased license costs than install service brakes at even more costs and future maintenance costs.

Pierre, if you were to increase the Tara of the Tow vehicle to 2150kg you will have won the fact that your tow vehicle may now tow your caravan legally Tara wise.

BUT

After you have done that, you are in any case limitted to the total  GCM weight of your tow vehicle and caravan combined.   This GCM and GVM of your tow vehicle subtracted from one another will provide you with the weight left that your caravan's GVM may weigh/be.

Example:

GCM Tow vehicle is 4850kg

GVM Tow vehicle is 2950Kg

This means that in this example the tow vehicle can only tow a caravan with a GVM of 1900kg.

These figures are more important than the Tara difference of you towing combination as this is what the officials use when your are pulled off at a weighbridge.  (This is why Herman and Chris wants to know what these figures are on your tow vehicle)

(Please note that my statement says "more important" and not "un-important") as this is what the trafic officials are currently focusing on.

 

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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23 Aug 2017 @ 15:42:41 pm
Anonymous

Presies dit wat Leon sê. Mits jou voertuig kombinasie die GCM nie oorskry nie, sal jy dan in orde wees.

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23 Aug 2017 @ 16:12:47 pm
Pierre Pretorius
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My tow vehicle GVM is 2920kg and GCM is 6000kg.
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23 Aug 2017 @ 16:32:52 pm
Chris Centurion
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Piere in your case, it is worth while do go through all the effort changing the tara of your tow cehicle. Go for it!
Moeg geploeg.
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23 Aug 2017 @ 18:08:15 pm
Leon
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My tow vehicle GVM is 2920kg and GCM is 6000kg.

This means then that your vehicle can tow a caravan with a GVM of 3080kg.

So if you realy want to you can try to change the Tara of the Tow vehicle.

Please list and document the process carefully as there will be some other members that would like to go that route as well.

I am one because I would like to get a new Navara. But the Tara is way to low to even think about it for towing my Sensation but the manufacture's spec is perfectly inline.

 

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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23 Aug 2017 @ 18:25:36 pm
Anonymous

My tow vehicle GVM is 2920kg and GCM is 6000kg.

Die 2920 - 2150 = 770Kg Payload (dit sluit bagassie, brandstof, mense en alle los goed in)

6000 - 2920 = 3080 Kg.  (Dit is wat jy mag sleep)

Jou Sensation se GVM is minder as dit

Jy mag egter nie jou tarra (volgens lisensie se registrasie), of aste se individuale vemoë (voor en agter as appart), of jou bande se dra vermoë oorskry nie. Watter ook al die kleinste is.

Dit wat ek hier lees, maak dat jy dus wettig is, volgens my opinie, maar dit is hoe ek dit verstaan.

 

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23 Aug 2017 @ 19:03:05 pm
Leon
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Die 2920 - 2150 = 770Kg Payload (dit sluit bagassie, brandstof, mense en alle los goed in)

6000 - 2920 = 3080 Kg.  (Dit is wat jy mag sleep)

Jou Sensation se GVM is minder as dit

Jy mag egter nie jou tarra (volgens lisensie se registrasie), of aste se individuale vemoë (voor en agter as appart), of jou bande se dra vermoë oorskry nie. Watter ook al die kleinste is.

Dit wat ek hier lees, maak dat jy dus wettig is, volgens my opinie, maar dit is hoe ek dit verstaan.

 

Oom Johan is reg met meeste behalwe dat jy mag die Tara oorskry, solank jy 'n adisionele "service brake" op die wa aanbring.

In aggeneem die laaste twee jaar se delima met die karavaan gewigte is die volgende waarneembaar.   Die beamptes wat karavane weeg het nog elkekeer gekyk na:

  1. CVM
  2. GVM
  3. Voor en agter as se gewig
  4. GVM gewig van die wa en
  5. Wa se as vermoë

Tot op hede het niemand nog 'n aanklag/boete ontvang rakende die Tara gedeelte van die wet nie.  

Ek vermoed dit is dalk omrede die tara eintlik moeilik is om te bepaal wanneer jy by 'n weegbrug kom. Dit is moontlik om dit te weeg maar mens moet eers die voertuig voorberei tot 'n Tara weeg spec hom dan weeg en so wys dat jy die regulasie oor tree.

Nou as die Tara weeg spec byvoorbeeld toon dat die brandstof tank kwart moet wees en jy staan daar met 'n driekwart tenk gaan hulle nou die tenk brandstof uit tap tot die meter wys hy is nou kwart. Daarby gesê ons almal weet die meter se kwart by alle voertuie is nie altyd die ware kwart nie en die is maar een gedeelte van die Tara weeg spec.

Onthou die beleid is jy moet geweeg word alvorens jy aangekla kan word. Dis soos met spoed. Die beampte moet bewys dat jy daar en dan die regulasie oortree en dit wat op papier/skyfie staan (Tara gewig) is nie noodwendig  wat jy op daai oomblik weeg nie.  Meer of minder Tara is moeilik om te weeg want dit gaan gepaard met spesifike vereistes wat voorbereiding kos.

Dus die kanse dat jy ooit 'n aanklag sal kry tov die Tara van jou sleep voertuig en die GVM van die Karavaan is regtig baie klein.

 

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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23 Aug 2017 @ 19:07:07 pm
Leon
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Ek persoonlik sal net die  tara van die Navara graag wil verhoog omrede dit maar in my wese is om maar te hou by regulasies.

Dit, .......... al weet ek die kanse op 'n boete is baie klein.

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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23 Aug 2017 @ 19:12:42 pm
Anonymous

Leon, in hierdie geval, gegewe die syfers, sal ek nie eers die tarra verander nie. Dit sal slegs die Sensation se ware gelaaide gewig wees wat 'n oorlaai gaan bewys.

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23 Aug 2017 @ 19:18:40 pm
Leon
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Dan net so effe van die onderwerp af Pierre, Ek hou van jou Profiel foto.  Ek het so vir Maia weerskante van my wa op

Karavaan Maia

Links vlieg sy na links en regterkant na regs.

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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23 Aug 2017 @ 19:20:24 pm
Leon
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Terug by die Tara gewig.

Hou ons asb op hoogte as jy die manier gekry het om Tara van sleep voertuig te verhoog.

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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24 Aug 2017 @ 06:30:39 am
Back Packer
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Ek is een wat graag will weet hoe en wat gedoen moet word, aangesien my Isuzu en die nuwe modelle se Tara ens nie baie virskil nie, maar die sleep gewig virskil met so 1000kg. Soos Leon se as ek die GCM can verander dan het ek meer as net 75 kg om mee te speel.

"Children have never been good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them."
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31 Aug 2017 @ 19:35:15 pm
Soutigheid
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This weight issue is most confusing What I would like to ask is my karavan gvm is 1800.
My tow vehicle gvm is 2999 and gcm is 4149. So in theory I am towing illegaly as I can only tow 1150 kg.The payload on my tow vehicle is 1189.

My question is if I load my caravan to full gvm of 1800 and my tow vehicle to 2310 my total mass will be 4110 kg. This is 39kg less than Gcm.

Will I then be within legal parameters or will my combination be deemed ilegal soley based on the stated Gcm and Gvm mass of the vehicles as per the specs.
Camping: where you spend a small fortune to live like a homeless person
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31 Aug 2017 @ 20:16:35 pm
Anonymous

Vernon, you are fotunately just legal.

The Sani's tare is 1810Kg, you are only allowed to tow gcm - tow vehicle's tare ie 1810Kg. in your case.

That is the way I see it.

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01 Sep 2017 @ 07:00:34 am
Leon
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You are ilegal.

Reason is.

Your vehiçle as specified by the manufacture may only tow a weight of 1150kg according to the GCM minus the GVM.

So irespective what you load on your tow vehicle you may only tow anything with a GVM not exceeding the 1150kg

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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01 Sep 2017 @ 11:15:41 am
Anonymous

You are ilegal.

Reason is.

Your vehiçle as specified by the manufacture may only tow a weight of 1150kg according to the GCM minus the GVM.

So irespective what you load on your tow vehicle you may only tow anything with a GVM not exceeding the 1150kg

Vernon, sorry, my mistake, Leon is correct. The towing limit, in this case, is the lower of the two.

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01 Sep 2017 @ 17:23:43 pm
Soutigheid
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Thanks this is yhe type of info you dont get from caravan dealers or magazines. They all work only with the tare weight to determine if you can tow a particular caravan.
Camping: where you spend a small fortune to live like a homeless person
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02 Sep 2017 @ 20:19:29 pm
George
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i was in a simular situation with my colt rodeo pulling an exclusive, the legal wieght the colt could tow was 1500kg the exclusive is 1750kg, i bought a service brake kit from wingate and installed it myself to the colt and the caravan . according to the powers that be i am now legal [ and a lot safer ] i have control over the caravans brake at my finger tips inside the colt, i have it set up to brake the caravan a little before the colt brakes come in and i can brake the caravan individualy if it ever got out of line behind me, cost of kit 17k, compared to the cost to replace bakkie with a legal one 3 to 400k.
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04 Sep 2017 @ 07:42:35 am
Leon
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i was in a simular situation with my colt rodeo pulling an exclusive, the legal wieght the colt could tow was 1500kg the exclusive is 1750kg, i bought a service brake kit from wingate and installed it myself to the colt and the caravan . according to the powers that be i am now legal [ and a lot safer ] i have control over the caravans brake at my finger tips inside the colt, i have it set up to brake the caravan a little before the colt brakes come in and i can brake the caravan individualy if it ever got out of line behind me, cost of kit 17k, compared to the cost to replace bakkie with a legal one 3 to 400k.

Hi George.
Please supply more information with regards to the service brake you installed.
What is the specs? How does it work? Where did you buy it? Is it still available? What is the changes you have to implement on the existing brakes to accommodate the service brakes, on the vehicle and the caravan?
Pictures will be of great value.

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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04 Sep 2017 @ 10:18:39 am
Danie-SLK
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Ek neem aan die plek wat George na verwys is Winbrake want hulle doen alles rondom rem en stuurstelsels en bestaan al baie jare.

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04 Sep 2017 @ 20:47:13 pm
George
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its a hydralic over vacume system, you have a booster device, chamber vacume unit its called , its a smallish unit around 4 inches in diameter an about 2 inches long of wich one end is tee ed into the brake pipe at the brake master cylinder, [ you can tee it into any side of the dual brake system ] the unit can be mounted any where in the engine bay , it is conected via a metal hudralic pipe, you then have an air tank [ about 2 inches square and a foot long ] with 2 fittings on . the tank is mounted to the chassis in the gearbox area were there is space and out of harms way, one end of the air tank is tee ed into the inlet manifold [ at the brake booster vacume fitting ] by means of a plactic vacume pipe , or in a diesel application tee ed into the vacume pump behind the alternator , the other fitting on the air tank is conected at one of the fittings on the chamber vacume unit via plactic vacume pipe, the other fitting on the chamber vacume unit is conected via plastic vacume pipe and that pipe runs all the way to the back of the vechile [ under the vechile next to the chassis ] and is conected to a quick coupler, next you have a control unit [ a push button and adjust device with 6 settings ] wich you mount in the drivers compartment with in arms reach [ the size of a canopy door handle ] and that is conected to the chamber vacume unit by means of a cable,
how it works
when you apply the foot brake the hydralic pressure that is applied to the wheels is also applied to the chamber vacume unit which in turn opens a valve in the chamber vacume unit which in turn pulls a vacume from the pipe that goes to the back of the vechile [ the one conected to the quick coupler ] wich is created [ via the air tank ] from the conection at the engine,
next, the caravan
a brake booster is mounted to one side of the caravan chassis wich is conected to the caravan over ride brake via a cantelever system, a plastic vacume pipe then conects the brake booster via a quick coupler which conects to the quick coupler at the back of the vechile,
how it works
when the foot brake is applied the vacume created pulls the brake booster in which in turn pulls on the over ride brake system which in turn brakes the caravan [ this all happens in real time , no delay to the caravan brake ]
instalation
being an automotive engineer by trade and having a work\machine shop at mt finger tips i made all the brakets , mounting and fittings to install all of the above [ not supplied in kit as every vechile will need its own configuration ] email me at mondial8@telkomsa.net and i will send you part numbers contact numbers etc
george
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05 Sep 2017 @ 06:18:23 am
Leon
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Thank you George for the information and that which you sent by phone. I now have a better understanding of how the system works.
Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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04 Oct 2017 @ 18:20:22 pm
Pierre Pretorius
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At last I had time to sort this out and it was actually very easy. My problem was that the GVM of my Sensation exceeded the tare weight of my new Amarok. This was a problem for me as it was not legal, I also had a potential problem with insurance both for the bakkie and caravan in the event of an accident.

After I installed some permanent aftermarket accessories such as canopy, long distance tank, bull bar,roll bar, side steps etc. I took the bakkie for a weigh at Donkerhoek scale who issued me with a tare slip.

Armed with the tare slip, form CNV (change of particulars in respect of motor vehicle), form ALV (application for license renewal), copy of registration paper and a certified copy of my ID, I went to the local license department.

The whole process took me under 15 mins as the lady had to update e-natis and issue me with a new license which reflect the new tare weight.

I now have to pay about R250 more on my yearly license fee. Which is negligible compared to installing a service brake on the caravan at estimated cost of R18 000.

GVM of Sensation 2240kg.
Old tare of Amarok 2053kg new tare 2360kg.
GVM of Amarok 2920kg.
GCM 6000kg of Amarok.

Pierre Pretorius
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05 Oct 2017 @ 06:03:53 am
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Thank you Pierre this is definitely the route I will take, as I also have extras : canopy, running boards etc etc on my Isuzu.

As a matter of interest, what fees did you pay to have the whole cabodle done?  

"Children have never been good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them."
-James Baldwin-
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05 Oct 2017 @ 06:41:34 am
Pierre Pretorius
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That is the best part no direct fees at all. Just the cost of my extras and the slight increase in yearly license fees.
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05 Oct 2017 @ 06:44:28 am
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Dankie Pierre

"Children have never been good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them."
-James Baldwin-
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