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In this section we share and discuss various technical advise that help fellow campers in general or regarding specific questions.

Please HELP with electrics

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27 Jul 2019 @ 19:05:09 pm
RichardJ
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I have been installing 12v LED lights in most of the Exclusive's cupboards and nose cone.

Also 220v plug boxes at the bed.

After installing the 30th light after 3 weekend stints.....no power on the one section. The section that powers the light switches at the door.

I thought it my have been the connections behind the fridge which I wired up via the vents.

While standing at the vents,in my socks, I wiped the aluminum strip that runs above the windows and felt an electrical tickle. I cut the wire to lengthen it and to isolate the area that I had worked on. I then tested the wires with multi meter and only recorded 0.6 volts.

I undid cables tracking back, but found nothing untoward.

Looking at the distribution box, I decided to test the 12v multi block on the side of the box. No1, 3 and 4 measured 13.7 volts. No 2 measured 0.6 volts the same as outside.

I then pulled the top with the wires out and tested the male lugs left in the white plastic box and got the same result.

Fuse no3 was blown.

Replaced the 10A fuse.....no change.

Tickle still there with 12v portion unplugged.

Undid the distribution board, everything disconnected. It is pop riveted closed, with sticker saying "no user serviceable parts inside

It is an 'Apollo 10' distribution board.

What next???

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27 Jul 2019 @ 20:18:34 pm
RichardJ
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28 Jul 2019 @ 10:58:08 am
mulderpm
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Hi Richard. It would be very difficult to assist over the forum, just so many variables.

My understanding about the Exclusive wireing is it runs anti clockwise from the battery and Apollo 10 box to the light switches to the left of the door. Permanent 12V all the way to the light switches along the way up to the 4 switches to the left of the door. Then switched all the way back to the lights on the furthest side of the caravan and above the door. The water pump switches wireing runs under the caravan floor in the chassis. 

Maybe, with your wireing experience you could draw a diagram and share it with us?

Groete,
Paul
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28 Jul 2019 @ 11:01:48 am
Chuck Norris
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Erens het jy droog gemaak. 

Begin van vooraf. 

 

As jy wil he jou drome moet waar word, moet jy eers wakker word.

Die jonge Fransmannetjie. (Parys - Frankryk)
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28 Jul 2019 @ 11:30:00 am
RichardJ
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Erens het jy droog gemaak. 

Begin van vooraf. 

 

My vrou stem stem.....

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28 Jul 2019 @ 11:32:47 am
RichardJ
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Hi Richard. It would be very difficult to assist over the forum, just so many variables.

My understanding about the Exclusive wireing is it runs anti clockwise from the battery and Apollo 10 box to the light switches to the left of the door. Permanent 12V all the way to the light switches along the way up to the 4 switches to the left of the door. Then switched all the way back to the lights on the furthest side of the caravan and above the door. The water pump switches wireing runs under the caravan floor in the chassis. 

Maybe, with your wireing experience you could draw a diagram and share it with us?

I pretty much have a grasp of The layout, directions etc.

My problem is finding the 'leak' on to the frame and what/ how to sort out the the dead circuit ...

 

Back to investigation.

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28 Jul 2019 @ 12:45:35 pm
RichardJ
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Fiddling with the fuses and plugging all back in ... voila 12v lights are all working. I probably blew the fuse cutting a live wire...

But the tickle is still there on the 220v line that goes to the fridge and micro wave. This is the line that I cut into for my 'bed boxes'. 

Ie no tickle on the other 2 plugs and only a tickle when that line is plugged in, even when switched off.

Any ideas as to how I isolate the leakage? 

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28 Jul 2019 @ 12:54:05 pm
mulderpm
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Unplug the microwave, and test if tickle is still there, unplug the fridge if tickle is still there it is the wireing.

Groete,
Paul
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28 Jul 2019 @ 12:57:58 pm
Chuck Norris
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My vrou stem stem.....

Luister vir jou vrou, sy is altyd reg. 

 

 

As jy wil he jou drome moet waar word, moet jy eers wakker word.

Die jonge Fransmannetjie. (Parys - Frankryk)
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28 Jul 2019 @ 13:05:59 pm
RichardJ
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Unplug the microwave, and test if tickle is still there, unplug the fridge if tickle is still there it is the wireing.

Unplugged and still a tickle.

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28 Jul 2019 @ 13:08:20 pm
RichardJ
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Luister vir jou vrou, sy is altyd reg. 

 

 

En so is Chuck ook altyd reg....

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28 Jul 2019 @ 13:13:11 pm
mulderpm
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Al is sy ook verkeerd is sy eintelik reginnocent

Groete,
Paul
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28 Jul 2019 @ 13:15:22 pm
RichardJ
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Paul I am thinking that with the tugging of wires that perhaps the feed into the fridge's box has come adrift slightly, fridge light comes on when opening the door. From that box there are 3 lines out, 1 to microwave, 1 exterior multiplug and 1 to socket in cupboard at foot of bed, (plug at door?)

For the tickle to be in the aluminum strips, how does it get there?

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28 Jul 2019 @ 13:16:39 pm
mulderpm
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Ek moet se toe ek laas onder die woonwa die pomp relay geinstaleer het het my wang aan die chassis geraak en ook n' tickle gekry. Die woonwa was electries geisoleer van die grond....staan net op rubber bande en neus wiel.

Groete,
Paul
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28 Jul 2019 @ 13:47:49 pm
OOM JEEP
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Begin soek by die driepunt plugs wat jy gekoppel het. 

Kan ook met die "rooi" driepunt plug toets of daar nie n verkeerde koppeling is nie.

I love camping all year round
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28 Jul 2019 @ 14:04:43 pm
RichardJ
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Paul I am thinking that with the tugging of wires that perhaps the feed into the fridge's box has come adrift slightly, fridge light comes on when opening the door. From that box there are 3 lines out, 1 to microwave, 1 exterior multiplug and 1 to socket in cupboard at foot of bed, (plug at door?)

For the tickle to be in the aluminum strips, how does it get there?

The line from fridge socket box goes to the door socket and then to the exterior multi socket.

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28 Jul 2019 @ 14:07:45 pm
RichardJ
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Ek moet se toe ek laas onder die woonwa die pomp relay geinstaleer het het my wang aan die chassis geraak en ook n' tickle gekry. Die woonwa was electries geisoleer van die grond....staan net op rubber bande en neus wiel.

I have previously spent time under the van connecting the waste pipes and not experienced any tickling.

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28 Jul 2019 @ 15:48:19 pm
Danie-SLK
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Richard the tickle is most probably from an earth that is dislodged. Check with your multimeter that each appliance has its earth intact. Use a good earth like on your Apollo where the rivets are. As some plugs don't have a tickle it seems it will not be on your blue plug. Also check the earth point in each plug back to the rivet on the Apollo.

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28 Jul 2019 @ 16:27:22 pm
RichardJ
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Frankie Danie.

 

Novice with meter. What settings should I use?

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28 Jul 2019 @ 17:44:14 pm
Danie-SLK
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With all power down and disconnected you use the normal 2 point on the multimeter and use the ohm scale. You will see the meter shows a short circuit if you put the 2 leads touching each other. No if you put one lead on the rivet and the other lead on the frame or earth point on a 3 pin plug/socket it should again show you a short circuit.

WARNING: If there is ANY power present on any point you put the test leads you will be forced to buy a new meter. If not sure rather get someone to assist to check that everything has there earth connection intact.

When doing these tests rather disconnect your battery and also pull out your blue power cord from the caravan.

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28 Jul 2019 @ 18:43:12 pm
Swanie
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Fiddling with the fuses and plugging all back in ... voila 12v lights are all working. I probably blew the fuse cutting a live wire...

But the tickle is still there on the 220v line that goes to the fridge and micro wave. This is the line that I cut into for my 'bed boxes'. 

Ie no tickle on the other 2 plugs and only a tickle when that line is plugged in, even when switched off.

Any ideas as to how I isolate the leakage? 

 

bly jy het dit reg gekry

 

Kom ons gaan kamp
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28 Jul 2019 @ 19:12:12 pm
RichardJ
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Oops Danie

As I did not have an answer, after the thrilling F1, I consulted Electrian Google.

Results of his test on the socket by the door with power on:

Pos - negative = 223v

Pos - earth = 060

Negative - earth = 188

 

I then checked earth to earth wire, getting reading of 0

But on rivet (on centre top above the 10) 0.359 on 2 volts

I then checked the 2 sockets that I installed and wires look/felt firmly in place.

Still to check, my split and the connections (crimping) of the wires. Should I do the same as the Google test?

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28 Jul 2019 @ 19:58:53 pm
Danie-SLK
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Oops Danie

As I did not have an answer, after the thrilling F1, I consulted Electrian Google.

Results of his test on the socket by the door with power on:

Pos - negative = 223v

Pos - earth = 060

Negative - earth = 188

 

I then checked earth to earth wire, getting reading of 0

But on rivet (on centre top above the 10) 0.359 on 2 volts

I then checked the 2 sockets that I installed and wires look/felt firmly in place.

Still to check, my split and the connections (crimping) of the wires. Should I do the same as the Google test?

Richard some clarification is needed. The pos=L and neg=N and then earth.

If your pos to earth for the socket at the door was measured with the switch on and you got 60V then that socket has lost the live wire.

Also if the neg to earth measures 188V it should be below 1-2V. This means a Live and Neutral is switched around on the wiring and needs to be corrected.

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28 Jul 2019 @ 21:00:57 pm
RichardJ
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For clarification 

Positive = + = live = L= hot

Negative = - = neutral = N

Earth = (earth symbol) = ground = E

I touched the red prong to the L wires and black prong to N wire = 223v

And I think,

red prong on L and black prong on E = 060v

And black prong on N and red prong on E = 188v

All readings were positive

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28 Jul 2019 @ 21:18:01 pm
George
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a thrilling F1 indeed !

two roads diverged in a wood and i took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.
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29 Jul 2019 @ 00:22:04 am
Danie-SLK
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The GP turned out to be exciting with Vettel coming from 20th on the grid to 2nd in the race. Not good to see Lewis making the mistakes he did and getting penalties but hey he has been doing very well. With the rain strategy and quick to adapt was key in the race. 3 guys leaving the track on the same corner just shows how tricky that corner was in the wet conditions.

Back to your problem. Ignore any reading with a negative as it just means that the red lead is not on positive. Using a digital meter does not matter on which polarity you place which lead.

Your L to E should read 223V and not 60V.

Your N to E should not be 188V but very low. It will depend on how well the earthing is done on the utility side and how many copper earth straps have been removed over time. Nothing you can do. You might want to check between the L N and E in the residence as well and give us the readings as you did in the previous post.

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29 Jul 2019 @ 10:06:48 am
RichardJ
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Danie thanks for the trouble and interest in my problem.

You appear to be suggesting that the polarity issue is coming from my power source, or enroute, and even the earthing?

Power comes in from Eskom to a meter box outside the back door, then to the distribution board in our house. From there to a distribution board at the swimming pool pump say 30m. From there to a distribution board in my 'garage' say 5m. Then to some socket points in garage say 10m. Then an extension cable say 20m ending with a Janus socket. Then caravan cable with blue plug 10m into the caravan.

 

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29 Jul 2019 @ 10:27:28 am
Danie-SLK
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Richard as we have the L and N swopped somewhere I just wanted you to check from the source. It could be at any point like a plug in the house, swimming pool or garage. Once the supply polarity is right at source then we know it is inside the caravan.

Take the same measurements: L to N      L to E     N to E

As this is getting into nitty gritty you can also contact me via email at woonwaled  then gmail then com

At times I don't get on the forum but I do check mail on a regular basis.

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29 Jul 2019 @ 10:29:51 am
RichardJ
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Thanks Danie, we will continue the search when I get home this evening.

Much appreciated.

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29 Jul 2019 @ 10:37:55 am
Danie-SLK
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As Paul indicated it is not easy to guide you this way if one is not there to actually do the various test and to interpret them to try and find the gremlin after the wiring you have done.

At least we know there is a problem based on the readings you have provided.

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29 Jul 2019 @ 12:22:24 pm
Wetkit
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Yea, suspect you have a missing earth somewhere.

Either in your van or outside.

Also make sure your caravan chassis is earthed and connected back to your supply earth.

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29 Jul 2019 @ 13:04:34 pm
Leon
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According to me the electrical tricle that you felt while touching the aluminium is due to a bad earth on the 220V side. 

Same as what is previously suggested.  Make sure the wall socket where you plug in the caravan is correct.  Then check the continuity between the brown wire on either side of your caravan lead. There should only be continuity when checking the same color wires.

If the above is okay, the earth diverted through the Apollo 10 to the rest of the power points and chassis is suspect.

I would relay the earth wire coming into the caravan  before it goes into the Apollo to the rest of the plug points and chassis. 

 

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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29 Jul 2019 @ 13:06:00 pm
Leon
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As for the section of LED lights not working the problem should only lie in that section somewhere.

Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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29 Jul 2019 @ 13:16:12 pm
RichardJ
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As for the section of LED lights not working the problem should only lie in that section somewhere.

Thanks for input Leo. The 12v LED problem is sorted, a fuse was blown (I cut a live cable and did not realise that the fuse had blown). The next day after replacing and fiddling with the fuse the line worked correctly.

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29 Jul 2019 @ 13:36:42 pm
mulderpm
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Leon, that is what I was planning to suggest...

Check the voltage between the caravan earth and the ground (terra firmia) a water pipe will do. If you get more than 100V the caravan is not properly earthed to the mains earth.

Check the continuity from the furthest point (plug, at the door I think) to the mains lead earth you plug into the Eksdom supply earth. If more than 1 ohm then measure closer to the caravan and closer to the DB box (Apollo 10).

I had a fault on my Penta where the earth from the external input from the mains plugs on the side of the caravan into the Hercules box was open circuit in the kettle plug.

Or wear insulative shoes when you go camping. If it does not trip your earth leakage it is not "dangerous"?

Good luck

Groete,
Paul
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29 Jul 2019 @ 15:14:55 pm
Danie-SLK
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I think we are all on the right track. The N to E at 188V must be solved as the N should be close to E as the N is earthed via a N link on the transformer feeding the area.

We 1st have to find out that the input(source) is correct otherwise we keep on looking in the caravan and it might be the whole installation.

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29 Jul 2019 @ 19:27:34 pm
RichardJ
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Ok, so made a testing plug with wire end fastened to a black connector block.

Socket at door:

power switch on at DB

L&N = 225v

L&E = 54V

N&E = 196V

Power switch off at DB

L&N=0v

L&E=187v

N&E=187v

DB outlet for faulty line:

Power switch on

L&N = 255

L&E = 30

N&E = 214

Power switch off

L&N = 75

L&E = 44

N&E = 214

Janus socket that feeds my caravan cable:

Is a 2 core garden cable......no earth...visually looks like L was going to left/N hole.

L&N = 226v

L&E = 75V

N&E = 54v

And then I had a loose prong in my hand....wire came off tester prong a sealed unit....so abandoned further testing for tonight....

 

Thanks for everybodies input

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29 Jul 2019 @ 20:51:32 pm
Danie-SLK
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Very bad of you embarassed- dangerous. You have to change the 2 core cable via Janus with a 3 core cable (2.5 sq mm suggested) even if it is thinner just to do any further fault finding.

Once the L and N are swopped around and you have a 3 core earthed supply lead the tickle might be gone.

Further your L and N are swopped around. What you think is a L is the N and vice versus.

Now we have to confirm that the L and N from the main DB is correctly connected as well as L and N in the swimming pool DB as well as the garage DB and the Janus plug/socket.

Sorry about the test prong. Once the test prong is sorted out we can take it further.

Look at the Janus socket on the caravan side to have the L and N on the correct pins.

Anybody with their input for Richard?

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29 Jul 2019 @ 21:19:46 pm
JohanMarais
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What I did to do testing is I drilled small holes directly above the prongs of an ordinary three pronged plug. I then just insert the leads of the multi meter through these small holes to get a reading, no struggle with loose wires.

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29 Jul 2019 @ 21:27:41 pm
Danie-SLK
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I hope some more people read this tip. The safest/easiest way to test for voltage or earth connection. Thanks for reminding us Johan.

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30 Jul 2019 @ 07:51:11 am
mulderpm
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No earth wire from caravan to Eksdom supply is very dangerous and is the first thing to be corrected.

The problem I see is that there is a resistance/voltage between the earth/ground terra firma and the mains earth/chassis of the caravan. The earth on the caravan is wired to a common earth point next to the DB Apollo 10 box and the chassis of the caravan. If the circuit is broken, like with a 2 core cable, then the chassis earth is floating compared to the mains earth and you will get a shock/tingle.

You also get a 3 pin plug with lights that show correct wireing of the 3 wires of the plug. All lights must be on.

I bought a small AC plug in volt meter for R90 on the internet to check the camp voltage. It simply plugs into a 2 pin socket. When the camp voltage drops below 190V I switch my fridge off and don't use the aircon. In some camps this happens regularly! Round 5pm to 7pm, cooking time!

Groete,
Paul
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30 Jul 2019 @ 08:45:38 am
RichardJ
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Interesting meter Paul. Do you leave it in permanently?

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30 Jul 2019 @ 10:27:32 am
Hurricane
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No earth wire from caravan to Eksdom supply is very dangerous and is the first thing to be corrected.

The problem I see is that there is a resistance/voltage between the earth/ground terra firma and the mains earth/chassis of the caravan. The earth on the caravan is wired to a common earth point next to the DB Apollo 10 box and the chassis of the caravan. If the circuit is broken, like with a 2 core cable, then the chassis earth is floating compared to the mains earth and you will get a shock/tingle.

You also get a 3 pin plug with lights that show correct wireing of the 3 wires of the plug. All lights must be on.

I bought a small AC plug in volt meter for R90 on the internet to check the camp voltage. It simply plugs into a 2 pin socket. When the camp voltage drops below 190V I switch my fridge off and don't use the aircon. In some camps this happens regularly! Round 5pm to 7pm, cooking time!

Think the plug you refer to is the one made by Ellies, costs about R100 at most Builders Warehouses. It has LEDs that show things like correct/incorrect polarity, earth/no earth, etc. I always keep one in my Fleetline and before plugging in my cable to a park's supply I use this to make sure I plug my van into a reasonably healthy supply. By the way, for all to be correct the two bottom LEDs must be on not all three. The plug has all the different combinations and what they mean on it. This plug saves a lot of multimeter time!

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30 Jul 2019 @ 12:46:08 pm
Danie-SLK
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30 Jul 2019 @ 15:54:36 pm
BrianB
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This has been a very informative thread. Tks to all for their input so far.  Please don't take your discussions off the forum as we can all benefit from the solution.

 

 

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30 Jul 2019 @ 17:25:41 pm
WilSur
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Len

Skies ek sien nou eers dié vraag op hierdie draad.

Hy het nie lekker kontak gemaak nie toe vat ek een van die Big penne met 'n veer aan die voor punt wat ek geknip het en hu pas binne die "fuse holder" en druk teen die sekering en die binne punt om lekker kontak te maak. 

Richardj

With the problem on the 12v side I used a Big pen's spring, cut 1/3 and put it in the fuse holder.  This solved my problem.

WilSur se buite opwas.

Oppad na die volgende kamp.
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30 Jul 2019 @ 17:53:50 pm
Danie-SLK
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Willem dankie vir jou inset. Soos ons gesien het is die N en L alreeds omgeruil en dit sien mens omdat daar meer as 180V tussen N en E is. Daai syfer behoort onder 20V te wees as die aardkoppelings sleg is maar kan so laag as amper nul wees.

KLEIN lading kan met die aardpen soos Willem dit beskryf word veilig gemaak word maar mens kan dalk 'n werklike fout soos 'n af gronddraad toesmeer asof alles reg is. 'n installasie waar alles reg is sal nie 'n skok gee nie. Die skok kan ook deur die 12V v d laaier af kom as iets 'n lekstroom het.

Dankie Brian ek wil net nie meeste lesers verveel net om 'n enkel persoon te help nie. 

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30 Jul 2019 @ 20:16:43 pm
RichardJ
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Thanks for all the input. A great learning experience with my new multi meter, knew I would need it some day. I retire as financial manager tomorrow, perhaps I can sign on for an appyship....

 

Bought a prong, tested a new source, polarization ok, earth ok. Plugged in, checked socket at door, polarization still swopped. Checked DB socket, also swopped.

Undid Jurgens supplied blue plug....

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30 Jul 2019 @ 20:23:53 pm
RichardJ
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Not only incorrectly wired, state of copper wires....a mess.

Earth has 2 screws to fasten, only 1 used.

Plugged in....polarization correct....thanks to now having earth....no more tingle!!!!!!

L -N = L-E = 225V, N-E= 0

Again thank you for all the help and great ideas, problem solving techniques...especially Danie.

Wilsur I assume the Bic pen spring is to help secure the fuse, not replace it!?

 

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30 Jul 2019 @ 20:51:22 pm
Danie-SLK
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Glad you came right Richard. I hope this is a pointer what we can get when you don't have a earth or the earth wire is broken.

Paul gave a good explaination as to why we get the tinckle when no or bad earth.

 

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30 Jul 2019 @ 22:26:35 pm
BrianB
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Richard - glad you got sorted smile

Danie - definitely not boring especially for those of us who are willing to learn something. This is what makes this forum so great.

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