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Talk about the different aspects of your tow car and tow advice.

Listen to good advise

replies: 44
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05 Apr 2014 @ 21:29:33 pm
Anonymous

I completly messed up my trapezuim by not listening to good advise given by a fellow forum member.

On another topic,  we discussed towing assisting devices,  Leon mentioned the locking pin on a trapezium,  i complety forgot about this,  and towed a 6m trailer loaded with furniture for 200kilos. It distroyed my trapezium. 

I would like to use this lesson as advice to others,  when you read good sensable advise,  use it to your own advantage.

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06 Apr 2014 @ 03:41:08 am
Durbs
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Hi Johann, Please could you explain more, and what about the 6mm pin?
Regards ELNOR (Else & Norbury)

Happy camping
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06 Apr 2014 @ 08:13:51 am
Anonymous

Norbury, there is a 6mm locking pin, locking bolt, that is normally screwed in at the rear side of the trapezium, the tow ball just misses it when you swivel it around.

When you want to tow a trailer or something else that cannot accomodate the steering arm, you unscrew the bolt with allen key, and screw it in at the front side of the trapezium, you will see the corrersponding hole in the bottom part of the trapezium where it should go, and that will totally immobilize the "moving" of the tow ball, hence giving you a normal "fixed" type of tow ball.

I will e-mail you some instructions on the trapezium, as well as some photos of how I "locked" my trapezium steering arm from preventing it from going out of the correct setting.

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06 Apr 2014 @ 09:33:56 am
SOREN ZN
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Hell I did not know you could lock the trapezium, I keep changing to the standard ball when I have to use another trailer?
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06 Apr 2014 @ 10:11:49 am
Anonymous

Ole, the problem arises when you buy a trapezium, or for that matter ANY anti-sway device 2nd hand. As a rule the previous owner threw away the instructions, hence leaving you with your own problem doing whatever.

I had, many, many years ago some discussions with the manufacturer of the trapezium, Len Booysen, and we had in length discussions on the general handling of the trapezium.  A year or two ago some people on the "other" forum also critisized  the product, BUT, that was done out of plain misconception, and not really knowing how to install and maintain the product.

I once again got in contact with Len, and again he  assured me of the fact that you CAN reverse with the stearing arm attached, etc.

One of the main rules of the trapezium, stated by the manufacturer, is, DO NOT ACCEPT/BUY HE PRODUCT IF YOU DON"T GET THE INSTRUCTIONS WITH IT!!!, and as some people get it installed at Campworld or where ever, they don't get the instructions!!!, hence not knowing how to use it properly.

I do not want to pick af fight with any of the readers/users about it, I am trying to help.   Ialso must state that I have no connection with the manufacturer nor do I get any commission, but in all the years I had a caravan, I tried to look, see, learn from other people's experience/mishaps etc., but always believed in getting the correct info from the people who should know, and for the use of the trapezium, the owner/big man himself!!!!

My very first trapezium  was bought directly from Trapezium Developments, (early 80'ties) as well as Drag Foiler (roof spoiler) as well as Trapezium Wings, (which was used on front and back corners of oldish caravans to get smooth lines, more streamlining).

I do have instructions and few other things available to be e-mailed for any one else if you ae interested, just send me a blank e-mail to fppretorius@gmail.com

 

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06 Apr 2014 @ 10:23:10 am
Anonymous

Durbs, Frans explained it nicely. Dankie Frans.

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06 Apr 2014 @ 11:09:40 am
Anonymous

Ole, OK, before you actually TOW the trailer, make sure that if the trapezium ball is locked, and you attach the trailer, the a-frame of the trailer, where it meets at the front, has sufficiant space to be able to make a turn.

If I can try and explain, the caravan coupling is "longer", hence going further forward onto the trapezium when you "pull" forward, but leaving space for the turns, where as the trailer's coupling is not protruding that much "infront" of the a-frame, and when you make a turn, the a-frame get caught between the "bolt heads" of the trapezium, causing "dents" in the a-fame.

Damn, It is difficult to explain. if not understandable, please shout, I will try and make up a sketch, or perhaps I have some pics of my trailer coupling.

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06 Apr 2014 @ 11:46:54 am
Anonymous

Ok, if I can explain from this photo, I had to move the coupler forward, because the A-frame part, where you see the chain, got stuck onto the Trapezium. The coupler is too short to fit in onto the ball and rest of the trapezium, and can also cause damage to the trapezium itself, and perhaps that is what happened to Johann, I can't tell. Therefore it is advisable to FIRST TEST before you go on the road.

If you are going to use an "Rental" trailer, I would advise fitting normal tow ball instead for that trip.

My modification on the other hand made that the trailer's nose were a bit lower, and gave more "level" stance.

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06 Apr 2014 @ 11:48:42 am
Anonymous

For today "my  raad en planne" is finished!!!! Hope it can be of help to anyone in the future!!!! 

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06 Apr 2014 @ 16:38:38 pm
Pieta
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Dankie, Frans sien so leer ons elke dag iets by. Wink

Kamp Groete
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06 Apr 2014 @ 17:30:34 pm
Bostoe
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Dankie Frans
Haak daai wa kamp bly koning
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06 Apr 2014 @ 20:22:19 pm
Durbs
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Thanks Frans, sure this will help many, as Soren said, I too didn't know that you could lock and use as a solid ball, I happened to see this about a week ago, now I don't have to change the balls around anymore.
Regards ELNOR (Else & Norbury)

Happy camping
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06 Apr 2014 @ 21:47:09 pm
Anonymous

Ek sal more foto van my trapezium probeer plaas hulle se trapezium sal dit teen R900 kan regmaak. Sal maar so 2 kampe met yellow blade doen en dan besluit. Vir paar rand meer kan ek net sowel nuwe koop.

Hy is so vas, ek kry geen beweging met dit in vise en strong arm nie, weet nie wat is n strong arm in my eie taal nie.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 07:11:27 am
DR DRAKE GP not a Doctor nor a GP
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Hi Frans,

That photo brings up another interesting thought!

What characteristic changes did you experience lengthening the A-frame (by moving the tow bar forward)?

 

DR DRAKE GP

not a Doctor nor a GP
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07 Apr 2014 @ 07:35:11 am
Anonymous

David, I had to do that, the trailer could not turn either way before that, and just with the testing at home the "front" plate, covering the two parts of the a-frame, got dents in it, so I realised the it is not going to work at all.

By "extending" it, I also managed to "lower" the nose of the trailer, and travelled to Namibia 3 times, South Coast 3 times, and no changes in behaviour at all,  (before I did the alterations, I used to change back to normal towball, but with the problems I have with my hands, decided to solve the problem my own way)

When I sold my van last year, I also included the trapezium, so I am back to normal towball yet again. I used a 15mm plate to do the extension, as shown in the photo, and had to lenghen the safety chain a wee bit.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 07:55:41 am
DR DRAKE GP not a Doctor nor a GP
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Thanks Frans.

This just left me in two minds, but would not play around with my rig to experiment under any circumstance. This could be disasterous and also means there is more that can go wrong. I am sure manufacturers have tried this out and settled at what they found to be best.

1) My understanding is that the Trapezium works in such a way that the tow point has the effect of moving forwards, towards the centre of the back axle i.s.o. behind the bumper.

2) By moving the tow coupler forward, which has the opposite effect, it becomes more like a boat trailer, where the axle sits further back. (For members that think this may be ideal, one must just remember that a boat trailer is different as the weight is right back due to the engine).

 

DR DRAKE GP

not a Doctor nor a GP
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07 Apr 2014 @ 08:21:50 am
Anonymous

David, I did own a few trailers before this one, and the a-frames were not all exactly the same.

I also build one from scratch, and repaired one that were all rusted. The one build from scratch is still working after 25 years on my brother's farm.

By moving the coupler 8cm forward in my case, a small luggage trailer, tare of 140kg, GVW of 650kg, did nothing to stability, and it was merely  done to use the Trapezium in locked position, and not damaging the trailer or the Trapezium, like Johann's experience.

I won't do that with a caravan. I also cannot see how it in any circumstance affect the "working mode" of tjhe trapezium, and surely when the trailer manufacturer built the trailer, they had no previous experience in trying to hook up to a trapezium.

I merely tried to show people what I have done, and am still using it as it was shown, BUT I have read the trapezium installation page, and made sure that my modification of the coupling could not affect the trapezium. Many of the people here are using the trapezium without any idea of  how to set the steering arm, nor locking it for use without the steering arm.\

 

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07 Apr 2014 @ 08:36:38 am
Graham
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When using the trapezium with the anti sway arm attached  don't put the chain over the ball but rather hook it onto the hook underneath the trapezium, over the ball can damage the anti sway bar very easily. 

 

 

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07 Apr 2014 @ 09:20:43 am
Anonymous

Graham, you are correct, BUT it is not RATHER!!!, to be put underneath on the hook, that is the ONLY place for it to be!!!! NOT ON TOP, BUT UNDERNEATH!!!!, again, as per instructions by the manufacturer.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 09:24:52 am
DR DRAKE GP not a Doctor nor a GP
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I accept in the locked position, the Trapezium would have no effect.

I was interested in the behaviour with the extended towbar.

DR DRAKE GP

not a Doctor nor a GP
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07 Apr 2014 @ 09:43:18 am
Elleebee
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i have a factory reconditioned Trapezium - which i have not used. will someone please help - how is the safety chain attached inder the Trapezium to be functional but not either fall off and hang or intefere with the operation of the Trapezium?

thanks

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07 Apr 2014 @ 09:48:16 am
Anonymous

David, with all the caravans on the market, and the variety of towhitches available, you might find some of the couplers are up to 100mm "longer" tha the other. Same with trailer couplers, you get some of the older ones that is more than 60mm "longer" from the closest "hole", in other words, it protrudes 60mm more.

There are so many a-frame finishes, I don't think that 60 or 80mm will make any difference, As said, mine, as modified, was niow used for just about 20 000km, and as far as I am concerned, as stable as youi can expect.

On the other hand, this is a Karet built trailer, BUT, on our travels I have seen some, especially driving behind such a combination, that seems VERY unstable on the road, (normally at speed of 120km/h) it bounces up and down, perhaps unladen, have prominent sways, and shuffles, so far as that I have told my wife that it looks dangerous!!!

I can see my trailer's deksel through the rearview mirror, so, you can see exactly how it behaves, and really, it is a pleasure to tow, and, on the other hand, with my Merc I feel in control at all times!!! 400nm available for overtaking 5 or 6 lorries at once on Namibia's roads, and if you put foot down, you end up passing the front one at 170km/h, not being windgat, but the lorries travel so close to one another, you must pass them all in one go.

I will anyhow get in contact again with  Len Booyens of trapezium when I have time, and get his opinion. In the past he was quite willing to help, and I still have his e-mail answer to me concerning the reverse with trapezium, where all my input was proved to be correct.

 

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07 Apr 2014 @ 09:51:32 am
Anonymous

Elleebee, underneath the trapezium is a hook, specialy for this purpose, however, I did not think it was secure enough as my cable on the Penta looked like it come of  when I turn, so I secured it with a strong cable tie, and yust cut the tie when I unhitch.If you have a chain, the cable ties should work much easier than the cable, as you can loop the cable tie through one of the shackles and then strap it.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 09:56:16 am
Elleebee
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Johann - if for some reason the Trapezium should fail one has to rely on the chain to keep the caravan attached to the car. would cable tieing the chan just come off?

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07 Apr 2014 @ 09:56:39 am
AndrewPhilip (sadly leaving SA)
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Elleebee, there should be a hook underneath the Trapezium unit. You hook the chain on there.

Another thing to mention is that these things do have to be serviced at some point. IIRC it is when you exceed 3mm play on the unit. Think it costs about R400 but I shudder to think of the courier costs to Roodepoort!!!

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07 Apr 2014 @ 10:13:52 am
AndrewPhilip (sadly leaving SA)
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The pic below is of the underside of the hitch, showing the hook for the chain. The one below that shows the locking pin, in the locked position. (the screwtop, not the one with an Allen key head). When removed there is a storage point in the centre at the top.

 

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07 Apr 2014 @ 10:17:25 am
Anonymous

Elleebee, the cable tie is yust to keep the chain/cable in position and keep it from coming off when too loose, should the van become unhitched during tow, the van will "pull" backwards, thus keep the chain/cable on the hook as it points forward. I found that specially the cable, being hard, becomes unhooked, thus the cable tie, purely to keep it from falling off. 

I imagine if the chain has to much slack, the same would happen, rendering it useless.

Please keep in mind, this measure is ONLY to keep the safety chain/cable in position from falling off, and not to prevent "loosing" your van. 

Sorry for the poor English.

Die cable tie voorkom net dat die kable/ ketting nie afval in die ry nie, sou die wa vir een of ander rede in die ry afhaak, sal die terug ruk van die wa, die ketting/ kable in die trapezuim se haak vas ruk, en in die Penta se gaval, sodoende die handrem vasruk.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 10:20:05 am
Elleebee
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thanks Johan - i am just having problems visualisint the chain staying in place while towing but i guess it does.

i bet your english is better than my afrikaans.

thanks again

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07 Apr 2014 @ 10:21:38 am
Anonymous

By reading all this and other threads, like tyres and wheels, adjusting tow hitches etc etc etc it seems to me that camping with a van today needs a degree in Mechanical Engineering and the times of carefree hitching and camping are gone for good.

What happens to  campers who have 2 thumbs instead of hands and are not technically minded at all ?????????????????????????

Poor souls !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Maybe the tenters do have a valid point - just pack and go and ....squeeze in ......

2 left thumbs of te not

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07 Apr 2014 @ 10:29:56 am
AndrewPhilip (sadly leaving SA)
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The hook is pointed slightly upwards. With the chain not being rigid and hanging down it cannot push itself up to uncouple. The only way would be if you caught a middlemannetjie or bump, but even then your forward motion would counter this...so in theory you would need to be going backwardsWink

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07 Apr 2014 @ 10:32:41 am
Anonymous

When looking at Andrew's photo, I think his trapezuim's hook is far better than mine. The hook on mine is not bend upward like his, maybe thats why my cable was to unsecured?.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 10:44:41 am
Anonymous

Andrew, the Penta has a cable and not a chain, personally, I would prefere a chain, the cable is very rigid (hard?) and tends to go straight and not hang down like a chain, therefore it kept jumping off the hook. The hook is also not the same quulity as the one in your photo, mine looks more like a thin please of flatbar welded on.

I will try remember to post a photo this afternoon.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 10:54:28 am
Anonymous

By reading all this and other threads, like tyres and wheels, adjusting tow hitches etc etc etc it seems to me that camping with a van today needs a degree in Mechanical Engineering and the times of carefree hitching and camping are gone for good.

What happens to  campers who have 2 thumbs instead of hands and are not technically minded at all ?????????????????????????

Poor souls !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Maybe the tenters do have a valid point - just pack and go and ....squeeze in ......

2 left thumbs of te not

Gerd, I have made a commend earlier in this regard, I am an accountant, but love doing things with my hands, mostly electrical and woodwork.

My comment was something to the effect that I have learned more on this forum, than over 30 years of camping on our own.

Thanks to campers like yourself and a host of others together with this forum, even penpushers like myself, can actually start giving advice, instead of only asking.

I keep my books balanced, you campers keep my rig balanced how is that for a dealLaughingNamibia trip coming up now, hope you enjoy it and come back making us jealous.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 11:19:24 am
Graham
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I have a Classique with a cable, my hook is the same as the photo's above, i use the caravan monthly and the cable has never slipped off. It is quite safe and secure.

 

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07 Apr 2014 @ 11:41:36 am
AndrewPhilip (sadly leaving SA)
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Interesting. Seems it's not just Chinese imports that have quality issuesInnocent

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07 Apr 2014 @ 13:11:48 pm
Anonymous

Ok, once again I am going to throw in a few remarks here.

The hook that was bent upwards, was done some or other time by someone, as it comes out not bent upwards at all. Just make sure that after you have hooked the chain over the hook, you can still move the chain from one side to the other, FREELY, if it gets stuck, it will hinder the working of the trapezium. If the one on your vehicle is not bend upwards, do so with the free moving chain in mind.

The trapezium does NOT need servicing that often, IF USED and "stored" properly. By that I mean, if not in use oin vehilcle, at least protected with the correct rubber/plastic cover. DUST is the biggest problem. If you look at the instructions, you wll see it is advised to clean it regularly from the outside, and every 5 years stripped and cleaned all over, and repacked, UNLESS damage was inflicted to the bushes. It also says that with proper handling it is actually supposed to last a lifetime.

As I have mentioned earlier re trailer and locked position, and possible damage, it is also stated in the instructions that you should be aware of that.

I have sent e-mails to a few people with the instructions, as well as a plan I made to make sure that the steering arms stays on correct setting, and by securing the steering arm, you will prevent bending the stearing arm, and, with a bent steering arm your unit cannot operate correctly. The better way would be to set the steerring arm according to your combination, and spot-weld the arm at the locking bolts, to prevent it to go out of position.

As said earlier, I have no connection with Trapezium Developments, not do I receive commission, but in 30 odd years, I have seen, I have taken in, i have asked questions to the RIGHT people, in this case the manufacturer, and have never experienced problems, with the device as such, with reversing, and in general.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 16:03:50 pm
AndrewPhilip (sadly leaving SA)
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Service info as told to me verbally by Len Booysen from Trapdev...I agree not often, that's why I said 'at some point'. It is a pretty bullet-proof product though.

And since the unit has been in my family since it was purchased new from the dealership in Kimberley one bright December morning many many years ago, I can absolutely guarantee you that it DID come with a slight upwards angle. Don't know about the newer ones.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 16:56:52 pm
Anonymous

Another peace of good advice to myself:  check your facts before posting.

When I got home to take a photo of my trapezuim, i found that the hook is exactly like the photo by Andrew.

Have no idea why my cable did not fit properly.

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07 Apr 2014 @ 17:26:12 pm
Anonymous

I now had a comment written, but it didn't go through, so I start again.

Andrew, I stand corrected with the upward bent hook, as I had my last trapezium for about 12 years, I really can't remember!!!, I am told every day by "you know who" that I don't have memory of anything said longer than 2 weeks!!!! Sealed

I think for all's sake I better excuse myself from making this conversation, hence retaining at least a bit of dignity!!!! Embarassed and as I leave to seek some lost confidence in a glass or three "klippies and coke"!!! I can just agree fully that it is a good product and should be looked after . . . .  and actually I have no idea what the original posting was about!!!!!!!

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08 Apr 2014 @ 09:04:16 am
AndrewPhilip (sadly leaving SA)
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Long as one of those Klippies was on my behalf that's fineWink. Although I prefer Oom Jack, it's rude to let a man drink alone....Smile

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10 Apr 2014 @ 19:26:49 pm
SOREN ZN
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Johann, the new Penta has a chain.
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10 Apr 2014 @ 19:29:58 pm
SOREN ZN
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Johann, your one picture shows the trapezium pulled all the way our, is this not bad for it?
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05 May 2014 @ 17:02:31 pm
Johnnie
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Johann, ek het 'n stukkie 19mm tuinslang van so 100mm lank oor die haak (die een onderaan waaraan die kabel haak)se voorste deel gevorseer en dus die haak verlang met die tuinslang tot teenaan die body van die Trapesium om te keer dat die kabel uit sy plek kom. Die tuinslang maak dus die opening toe en is mos buigsaam,dus druk jy die kabel maklik verby om hom aan te haak en weer los te haak. My kabel het nog nooit uitgehaak daarna nie.
Hoop hierdie is 'n plan vir almal!




BIG TIME!!

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06 May 2014 @ 09:49:46 am
Anonymous

Soren, yes, that happened during a tow of a heavy trailer without the steering arm, it distroyed my trapezuim. The trailer was a rented one, and no place for the steering arm. My fault was not locking the device as per Frans Pretorius and Leon Coetzee's adviseSealed

 

Johnny, ek hoop mense sien jou advies raak, dis n uitstekende idee om die kabel in plek te hou. My Penta is n 2005 model, en sy kabel is baie lank, dit het gedurig af gekom nog voor ek by die hek uit is.

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06 May 2014 @ 10:29:58 am
AndrewPhilip (sadly leaving SA)
Mars Member
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Posts: 1421
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Experience: 36 years

Johnnie, that is a genius plan!

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