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Talk about the different aspects of your tow car and tow advice.

Jurgens Classique (2015) - Change TARE and GVM

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19 Dec 2016 @ 21:32:59 pm
Skippy
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Having read the advice on the forum with regards to TARE and GVM changes it looks like my problem may be different...

Last year we bought a new Jurgens Classique (2015),  the dealer offered to fit a mover and aircon as optional extras. We took delivery of the van with these options fitted by the dealer.

Reading about the concerns around overloading, we decided it best to be pro-active and get the caravan weighed for peace of mind.

We visited a weigh bridge in Midrand today.

The data plate reads - TARE 1266KG and GVM 1490KG

The caravan weighed 1600KG with the fitted extras (aircon and mover) plus tent, poles, ground sheet and mattress.

So the GVM and TARE is 1600KG

The axle is rated at 1600KG and the wheels are rated as 1900KG.

We took the tent, poles, ground sheets and battery out and got it down to 1500KG.

The guy at the weigh bridge suggests we should get the wheel bearings upgraded to handle the additional load and also obtain a letter from Jurgens rating the axle at 1800KG so that he can change the GVM to 1800KG.

Is this true?

 

 

Anyone else run into a problem like this and can offer some advice please?

 

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20 Dec 2016 @ 06:32:26 am
steamer
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I'm going through the same thing in Jan. I don't think Jurgens will just alter the axle's rating on paper. It will probably be best to upgrade the axle and wheels. (Check the tyre rating as well).
There have been lengthy discussions about this on the forum, try searching & reading.
Good luck!
Your strongest weapon is your mind!
And then there's, Power Tools!
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20 Dec 2016 @ 07:31:30 am
Skippy
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Thanks for the reply.

The dealer says that they will arrange to have it sorted in January as well. 

They also mentioned upgrading the axle to 1.8T but they weren't too keen because they feel it will be too rigid.

As it stands the caravan is not road legal but the dealer thinks it will be fine to travel to KZN as is and have them sort out in January.

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20 Dec 2016 @ 08:46:01 am
Brommer
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  1. Easy for them to say you will be ok...
  2. Where did you weigh your van?

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20 Dec 2016 @ 09:27:24 am
Skippy
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Yeah, I don't get that warm fuzzy feeling that we will be ok.
The dealer reckons this whole tare/gvm issue is blown out of proportion and says it's only the route going to Warmbaths that is affected. I'm not going that way so should be ok.

We used the weigh bridge in Midrand that's on the Tata premises, called VTS SA.
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20 Dec 2016 @ 09:39:15 am
Relaxed Camper
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Strange reaction from dealer?
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20 Dec 2016 @ 14:39:59 pm
Anonymous

Clint, someone posted a thread recently, stating that in KZN, they were having a mobile weigh bridge, so, the dealer should give you a written notice stating "you will be okay, they will sort it out in Jan 2017".

Unfortunately, I don't beleave upgrading the bearings alone is going to solve your problem, the axle rating will have to be upgraded aswell. The GVM  is detetmined as follows:

The lowest rating of the following;

The safe load rating of the axle,

The safe load rating of the combined capicity of the tyres,

Then lastly, your towing vehicle must outweight your caravan.

Sorry for sounding negative, but these are the facts.

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20 Dec 2016 @ 17:53:59 pm
Chuck Norris
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Jip. Sal maar moet wag en sien.
As jy wil he jou drome moet waar word, moet jy eers wakker word.

Die jonge Fransmannetjie. (Parys - Frankryk)
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20 Dec 2016 @ 17:59:29 pm
Leon
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Best would be to get your van sorted before you travel. The dealer will say that the weight isue is blown out of perportion because they and Jurgens factory are at fault.

If I was in your shoes, I would take the van back and tell them you want either one of two things.
1. They upgrade the axle and fix the weight on the natis system including the ID plate on the van or
2. They take the van back and give you your money back.

Just remember that this is only possible if the weight of the van is still wrong without the Aircon and Mover. As they are extras and would then be part of the weight difference between Tara and GVM. In your case 1490 - 1266 = 224kg.
Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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20 Dec 2016 @ 21:28:14 pm
Skippy
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Thanks for all the replies.
From what I can understand, the starting point is to get the axle upgraded to 1800KG rating.
Will visit the dealer tomorrow and discuss further.
They did indicate that they would look into this option next year only.

How much effort do you think is involved to upgrade the axle?
This an easy job?
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23 Dec 2016 @ 10:17:03 am
Hurricane
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Thanks for all the replies.
From what I can understand, the starting point is to get the axle upgraded to 1800KG rating.
Will visit the dealer tomorrow and discuss further.
They did indicate that they would look into this option next year only.

How much effort do you think is involved to upgrade the axle?
This an easy job?


Not up to the dealer to just upgrade the axle rating to 1800kg. The axle rating is determined by the axle manufacturer (probably Alko in Vereeniging) and is a design parameter. If you want a higher axle rating you need to buy a new axle rated at the new value. Get under the van, there should be a plate attached to the axle itself stating what that particular axle is rated for, if its at 1800kg you will not need a new axle, if not you need a new one.
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23 Dec 2016 @ 12:10:58 pm
Leon
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Thanks for all the replies.
From what I can understand, the starting point is to get the axle upgraded to 1800KG rating.
Will visit the dealer tomorrow and discuss further.
They did indicate that they would look into this option next year only.

How much effort do you think is involved to upgrade the axle?
This an easy job?

The dealer has to upgrade the axle by replacing it with a beter one.
This entails removinga nd replacing the old one. Changing the data plate if the axle mass is displayed there.
If they do that they can then sommer change the Tara and GVM while they are busy with it.

IT SURELY IS NOT JUST A PAPER JOB!!!!!!!
Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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23 Dec 2016 @ 15:59:59 pm
OOM JEEP
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Sorry, Aircon and mover cant weigh that much. Point. Thats nonsense. Subtrack that weigh from 1600 kg and fhat is what the weight should be.
As a technical man i dont understand the wheel bearing story..
The plate on the axle (red one from alko) stated the axle max. On the tyres there are also a place branded on the tyre which state the tyre limit.

To come back to bearings,,, as far as i know wheel bearings for most of the late model jurgens caravans are the same. I have a spare kit in my gadget box saying ...for blablabla all jurgens models. And i bouht the bearing kit for my 2003 exclusive.
I'am not sure if the axle is upgraded, that it will be woth the same bearings, that i cant say.

Nou hoesit dat my elegance se as rating 1300kg per as en bearings dieselfde is as ander waens..
Ek sal nietemin op die spare kit gaan kyk en dit hier plaas.
I love camping all year round
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23 Dec 2016 @ 18:27:28 pm
OOM JEEP
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Ek plaas fotos van wheel bearing kit no.8
Duidelik "for all road caravans"
Laaste foto is van die plaatjie op die as.... van al-ko

Ek het gedink dit was net late model jurgens maar sien nou dis vir alle pad waens.
I love camping all year round
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27 Dec 2016 @ 11:14:03 am
Skippy
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After a few phone calls with workshop managers at several dealers, it seems the upgrading of the wheel bearings in order to upgrade the axle is nonsense.

As mentioned we did go speak to the dealer last week Wednesday.

The axle will need to be upgraded or to be more specific, the existing 1600KG rated axle replaced with an 1800KG rated axle.
Effort to do this takes 1 day however, AL KO was already closed for the year so this has to be done next year January.

We did press the dealer further and they gave us a letter (Jurgen's Letterhead) stating that they are aware of the issue and will rectify in the new year.

What we ended up doing and I don't advise anyone to do the same...
We removed the 1600KG data plate from the axle and we started our journey at 1am as opposed to our usual 4:30am and we arrived at MacNicols around 1pm, 24th December.

We also purchased one of those Front Runner roof racks to carry some of the load and also if we needed to unload further.



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27 Dec 2016 @ 11:43:26 am
Leon
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After a few phone calls with workshop managers at several dealers, it seems the upgrading of the wheel bearings in order to upgrade the axle is nonsense.

As mentioned we did go speak to the dealer last week Wednesday.

The axle will need to be upgraded or to be more specific, the existing 1600KG rated axle replaced with an 1800KG rated axle.
Effort to do this takes 1 day however, AL KO was already closed for the year so this has to be done next year January.

We did press the dealer further and they gave us a letter (Jurgen's Letterhead) stating that they are aware of the issue and will rectify in the new year.

What we ended up doing and I don't advise anyone to do the same...
We removed the 1600KG data plate from the axle and we started our journey at 1am as opposed to our usual 4:30am and we arrived at MacNicols around 1pm, 24th December.

We also purchased one of those Front Runner roof racks to carry some of the load and also if we needed to unload further.





The dealer has to upgrade the axle by replacing it with a beter one.
This entails removinga nd replacing the old one. Changing the data plate if the axle mass is displayed there.
If they do that they can then sommer change the Tara and GVM while they are busy with it.

IT SURELY IS NOT JUST A PAPER JOB!!!!!!!


As I have stated! Enjoy you're holiday and I hope you are sorted in the new year. You must get the dealer to change the info on the NATIS system for you and the data plate while they at it.
Sonder Jesus is ek niks! ! ! !
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27 Dec 2016 @ 11:51:27 am
Chuck Norris
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Geniet die vakansie. Veilig sleep.
As jy wil he jou drome moet waar word, moet jy eers wakker word.

Die jonge Fransmannetjie. (Parys - Frankryk)
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18 Jan 2017 @ 08:21:20 am
Skippy
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***Update***

We've now received a quotation to resolve the axle issue from the dealer.

Axle 1800 kg - R10,150.92
Labour to Replace Axle - R950.00
New Data Plate and Register - R1,100.00
Total - R12,200.92

Cost price 1600 kg axle is about - R5,778.95
Cost price 1800 kg axle is about - R6,063.16

So far we've wasted R850.00 trying to sort the TARE and GVM out ourselves but was unable to because the axle needed to be replaced first.
Bear in mind when we took delivery of the van we had also paid "On the Road" charges.

My thinking is that the original 1600 kg should be credited or in other words we are liable for the cost difference between the two axles (this should have been done before we took delivery of the van).
We're most probably also liable for the labour costs to replace the axle.
And lastly, we are liable for some of the costs for the new data plate and register.

Does this sound about correct in terms of customer/dealer fairness?

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18 Jan 2017 @ 08:33:41 am
OOM JEEP
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Ek sal niks betaal nie.
Dealer en Jurgens se probleem. Punt.
I love camping all year round
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18 Jan 2017 @ 08:45:59 am
Brommer
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If ths van was sold to you with incorrect masses as advertised, I belueve you shoukd not pay a cent.. the dealer should be thankful that you are even willing to pay a difference for the upgrade.. i believe they were supposed to be the sxoerts and know that an aircon and movers might be a weight problem in addition to the already incorrect masses.. but again they just added extras without giving the client the pros and cons of adding stuff... so what do they know anyways!

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18 Jan 2017 @ 22:05:45 pm
Skippy
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Thanks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated.

Will take this up with the dealer in person come Saturday.
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01 Mar 2017 @ 19:55:58 pm
Skippy
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***Update***

After waiting 4 weeks, the 1800 KG axle arrived and was fitted today.
The hold up was apparently due to incorrect hubs supplied and they had to wait for the correct ones.

Now the dealer says the silver mags do not work with the new axle, as it is a heavy duty axle and the bolts do not fit.
They want to give us 2 x new white rims (at no charge) and put our tyres back on them.
We think this will look ugly.

Any suggestions? Please.


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01 Mar 2017 @ 23:07:28 pm
Danie-SLK
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Clint as you are already paying for the 1800kg axle and the labour etc and you bought the van to have mags on the least the dealer can do is to come to the party and supply mags instead of the steel white rims.

I would push for mags for free.

How come in your quote you are charged over R10 000 while the price of the 1800kg axle is shown as just over R6 000?
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02 Mar 2017 @ 00:08:38 am
Skippy
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Danie,

For context...

The dealer initially tried to pass the buck by making it the manufacturer's problem.

After another 2 weeks when that didn't work they accepted liability and offered to pay for the new 1800 KG axle.
They maintain that the price they quoted is cost price.

We agreed that I would pay for labour and documentation costs of R1800.00 which I believe is fair.

Seems the mag fitment issue was an oversight on their part.
I'm just not sure what our options are now and if there are any.




Clint as you are already paying for the 1800kg axle and the labour etc and you bought the van to have mags on the least the dealer can do is to come to the party and supply mags instead of the steel white rims.

I would push for mags for free.

How come in your quote you are charged over R10 000 while the price of the 1800kg axle is shown as just over R6 000?
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02 Mar 2017 @ 00:23:14 am
Skippy
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I "think" I may have a solution...

From what I understand, the Classique has a 1600 KG axle and the Exclusive has a 1800 KG axle(s). However they both have the same looking mags.

After a bit of research on the ALKO/Trailco website it looks like the Classique - 1600 KG axle has a PCD 5/114 whilst the Exclusive - 1800 KG axle has a PCD 5/165. I'm no expert but I'm guessing that's why the original mags won't fit the 1800 KG axle?

Which leads me to believe that the dealer needs to swap my Classique mags and get me the Exclusive mags.

Does this sound about right?
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