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In this section we advise you, and provide assistance to others on various industry topics.

Getting EB licence

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19 Jul 2013 @ 17:16:42 pm
Bev
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Hi All,

Currently enduring the agonies of trying to find a driving instructor for my 18yo son for him to get an EB licence so that he will be able to tow the van... So far we have been told that he will have to take the test the test with a towcar and trailer, and he will have to reverse the trailer 20 metres in a straight line ( in addition to all the parking etc of a normal test!! )
I cant help feeling that it is so unfair that I have got an EB licence when ....a) I took my test in an Automatic , and got a general licence.....and b) I have never towed the caravan in my life!!!!
Now my poor kid is going to have to have a doubly hard test just so that he can also tow a Caravan one day.....I cant help feeling that this is not right......:-(

Hugs
Bev
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19 Jul 2013 @ 19:00:16 pm
Froggy
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Ongelukkig is dit hoe dit nou is. Ek weet dit voel nou onregverdig Ons ouers het nie eers gegaan vir 'n toets betuur nie en het hulle lisensies weer baie makliker as ons gekry. Ek was weer gelukkig om my ou weermag lisensies om te skakel na EC (ou kode 14) wat ek nodig het vir Froggy (kode 10)
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19 Jul 2013 @ 20:41:01 pm
Duncan
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You want him to have a licence just sommer ? A licence does not make you a driver , practice does.

Rather go to a large park and spend time practising.

It's amazing how many older caravanners can't reverse their vans, scary in fact.

Slowly slowly catch a monkey..........

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20 Jul 2013 @ 09:46:50 am
Les
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I have to agree with Duncan.

There are so many "licenced" drivers out there just looking to cause an accident.

Driving is a learned/trained conscious effort, and even more so when towing, I know from my experience that when I took delivery of my camper/trailer I had never towed in my 37 years of driving and had to pull it 100K's home, when I got there I was "finished".

@Bev, be happy he is going to train, remember he is going to have his life as well as those around him in his hands, personally I would be much happier to know my son was "qualified" to tow before he went out and did it.

Just saying - LOL

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Remember, If you can't stir the pot you shouldn't be cooking!

Les
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20 Jul 2013 @ 12:24:48 pm
Froggy
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Ek glo ook aan oefen en ondervinding is die beste vir enige bestuurder. In die weermag moes jy strawe opleiding ontvang vir ten minste 6 weke voor jy jou lisensie kon kry. Daar moes jy elke dag bestuur en oefen. Selfs nagbestuur, bestuur in die stad, bestuur met nagvisie toerusting, bestuur met sleepwa gehak, bestuur met volgelaaide vrag, ens. Ek glo persoonlik was daar geen beter opleiding nie. Daar moes jy ook vir elke verskilende groote vragmotor apparte opleiding doen. Bestuurs skole kom nie naby die soort van opleiding nie. En as jy iets verkeerd gedoen het, het jy die pyn gevoel met jou straf wat jy moes uitdien. Daar het ek die vooreg gehad om MAN en MACK vragmotors te bestuur wat die Olifant Tank vervoer het. Die hele "rig" was so 92 ton. Gereeld het ons tanks opgeneem "grens" toe. 5 dae op die pad vanaf Pretoria. Moet se dit was 'n voorreg wat ons gehad het. Bev, ek is seker jou seun sal dit maak, oefen is die geheim. Harry
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20 Jul 2013 @ 16:44:46 pm
Duncan
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I remember clearly my training with the water truck which had all the baffles removed ! We also had to put our watches behind the wheels of any truck we were training on with regards pull aways on hills. Great fun!

The saddest part was learning not to swerve for dogs in the road..........

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21 Jul 2013 @ 16:05:22 pm
Bev
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Hi All,
I agree with you all that it is best that he does the training....the problem is that none of the driving instructors are prepared to do the EB licence, and they are all telling us that we have to go to the 'black' schools to find an instructor, and we will probably have to pay bribes!! Although this is quite strongly against my principles, I dont know if it is going to be necessary??
Added to that, my son is getting impatient and angry ( as all 18yo's are ) and cannot seem to understand why we are 'making his life difficult' by insisting on an EB licence and not a B!! Being a parent is not easy....

Hugs to you all
B
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21 Jul 2013 @ 16:17:31 pm
Froggy
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Ek dink hoe gouer hy dit agter die rug kry hoe beter. Hy gaan nie spyt wees nie en sal later in sy lewe sien hy gaan die vrugte daarvan pluk.
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21 Jul 2013 @ 18:09:22 pm
Dave
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For what it's worth,any licensed vehicle driver with an EB license may drive a vehicle combination that does not exceed 3500 kg and the trailer does not exceed 750 kg.Let him get a license and practice with a vehicle combination within spec,and when comfortable apply for a license in excess of EB license

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22 Jul 2013 @ 06:31:44 am
Grumpy/Hannes
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Very interresting Article about this EB License in the August issue of Caravan & Outdoor. Any one towing without a EB can have serious problems once involved in a accident with a Caravan. Insurance might not pay out!!!!

 

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22 Jul 2013 @ 08:37:46 am
Les
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A web page for interest for all of us that tow.

http://www.services.gov.za/services/content/Home/ServicesForPeople/Driving/Drivingandearningtodrive/drivingavehicle/en_ZA

Camp - Restore - Rejuvenate

Remember, If you can't stir the pot you shouldn't be cooking!

Les
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22 Jul 2013 @ 09:25:29 am
Leeu
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Good advice, thanks Grumpy!
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22 Jul 2013 @ 10:01:09 am
AndrewPhilip (sadly leaving SA)
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I don't think the AA does Driver Instruction anymore, but I can't hurt to call them and ask for a referral.

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22 Jul 2013 @ 11:34:07 am
Duncan
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Could not open the link but there are plenty of advanced driver training schools out there....

A half hour on the skid pan is worth 10 years of driving in my opinion. Changes your way of thinking to being in charge of the vehicle as opposed to it being in charge of you.

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22 Jul 2013 @ 16:21:55 pm
Hennievr
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if he want a lisence and you got to pays he wil do as you say. Walking from place to place will teach him that is not just his way. The training can be done in a parking space where it is quiet or on a road were there is no traffic( dirt road.) Parking and reversing is a must practice and yes it will take some of your time. Best other option is to go for a code ec. Heavy vehicle but it wil cost.

Regards

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23 Jul 2013 @ 08:34:11 am
Reg
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Two points come to mind here.
1. A lot of the young drivers today don’t seem to remember what they were
taught when learning to drive or feel now that they have their licence they no longer have to abide by the rules.
Immediately the exhaust system is modified and every trip is a time trial
to see how fast they can get from A to B and ignoring stop signs and other road users in the process. To hell with everybody else, they have arrived. Cell phones, cigarettes and sunglasses are the in thing. It’s like the Wild West here where we live. With the conspicuous absence of law enforcement, there’s nobody to keep them in check and the parents don’t seem to care.
2. With all the hassle and difficulty of getting an EB licence these days,
this is sure to have an influence on the caravan industry in years to come when the older (mature) drivers eventually give up caravanning and move on. The smaller van (less than 750 kg GVM) will become more in demand. Unfortunately, presently there are very few available.
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30 Jul 2013 @ 07:33:14 am
SOREN ZN
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I think I have just found a retirement job for me. I will become a driving instructor, who specializes in EB.
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30 Jul 2013 @ 07:58:21 am
Pieta
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Soos hulle sal se "Vasbyt en druk deur" as jy hom het dan het jy hom.
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30 Jul 2013 @ 08:14:21 am
Butts
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You have to use a trailer (or caravan) that exceeds 750kg for the EB test.  Thus practice with a trailer that has a GVM greater than 750kg and use the same one for the test.  Don't try a different trailer or van that you haven't practised with.

Recommend you use a trailer with a GVM of 1100 to 1200kg rather than a caravan - one has more visibility of and over the trailer in the 3 mirrors than the bulk of the caravan which blocks the centre mirror. 

 

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01 Aug 2013 @ 16:45:52 pm
Bev
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You have to use a trailer (or caravan) that exceeds 750kg for the EB test.  Thus practice with a trailer that has a GVM greater than 750kg and use the same one for the test.  Don't try a different trailer or van that you haven't practised with.

Recommend you use a trailer with a GVM of 1100 to 1200kg rather than a caravan - one has more visibility of and over the trailer in the 3 mirrors than the bulk of the caravan which blocks the centre mirror. 

 



We only have our caravan, and a small flatbed half-tonner : so we were considering hiring a trailer for a couple of days for the test......but we seriously need to find an instructor now. I am still getting replies from ALL the reputable driving schools that they only do 'B' licences. Eish. I think that we are going to have to go to the testing station and speak to the ( rather unsavoury ) instructors hanging around there. I think that 'Ole and Debbie' is onto something here : there is a serious need for towing instructors!!!!

As far as my son is concerned, he is giving me SERIOUS uphill with this. We live very far from his school ( about 20km away ) : and with no decent public transport system to speak of, this is becoming a real problem when he wants to socialize with the friends and girlfriend.... during the week is ok because he can use the Gautrain, but over week-ends and at night, there is nothing .....





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01 Aug 2013 @ 18:40:02 pm
Butts
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Bev, you will have to hire a trailer unless you know someone that has a trailer above 750kg that they will make available.  Its the only solution BUT make sure that it is the same trailer every time and for the test.  I cannot stress this enuf.

A 'similar' trailer may have different handling and movement characteristics than the one you had the day before.   Look at the rules for the test - you have one chance to make a correction for the lane alley reverse parking and the straight reverse.   A second correction fails the candidate.   Thus you have to 'know' your trailer.   Make sure the tyres are the inflated to the same pressure;   make sure the tyres are the same brand.

Het jy nie vriende op 'n plaas nie?   Dan oefen jou kind sy prakties met die plaas se sleepgoed en doen selfs sy toets by die naaste dorpie mits hy reeds sy leerlinglisensie het.   'n Boer maak 'n plan!!!!!

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01 Aug 2013 @ 18:40:13 pm
Butts
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Bev, you will have to hire a trailer unless you know someone that has a trailer above 750kg that they will make available.  Its the only solution BUT make sure that it is the same trailer every time and for the test.  I cannot stress this enuf.

A 'similar' trailer may have different handling and movement characteristics than the one you had the day before.   Look at the rules for the test - you have one chance to make a correction for the lane alley reverse parking and the straight reverse.   A second correction fails the candidate.   Thus you have to 'know' your trailer.   Make sure the tyres are the inflated to the same pressure;   make sure the tyres are the same brand.

Het jy nie vriende op 'n plaas nie?   Dan oefen jou kind sy prakties met die plaas se sleepgoed en doen selfs sy toets by die naaste dorpie mits hy reeds sy leerlinglisensie het.   'n Boer maak 'n plan!!!!!

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06 Aug 2013 @ 11:44:44 am
Reg
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Something for all EB licence holders to consider.
Taking an average tow vehicle and lets say a Penta caravan, the total GVM 
of the combined rig is around 3960 kg.
An EB licence only allows one to operate up to 3500 kg.
Admittedly these are the fully loaded figures but often big families reach
this limit. You should see what some arrive at the campsite with, every gadget available including the kitchen sink.

It may be interesting to check your own combined GVM, you may be surprised
and find yourself over the limit.

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06 Aug 2013 @ 12:28:06 pm
Micha El
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Something for all EB licence holders to consider.
Taking an average tow vehicle and lets say a Penta caravan, the total GVM 
of the combined rig is around 3960 kg.
An EB licence only allows one to operate up to 3500 kg.
Admittedly these are the fully loaded figures but often big families reach
this limit. You should see what some arrive at the campsite with, every gadget available including the kitchen sink.

It may be interesting to check your own combined GVM, you may be surprised
and find yourself over the limit.

Hi Reg,

A very valid point - it is why I cannot consider towing a vehicle with my motorhome on an EB licence.

I wonder how many of us are not in fact driving illegally because of just this?

Regards,

Michael

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06 Aug 2013 @ 12:44:57 pm
Reg
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Michael,
 
Very true.
Have tried to find the GVM for some motorhomes on the web. They don’t seem
to be too keen to give it and those that do are very close or over 3500 kg.
Doesn’t leave much left to choose from for the EB licence holder.
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06 Aug 2013 @ 13:42:24 pm
Butts
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The section below is taken from the National Road Safety Regs , section 99 (4) (a) and describes the code EB licence.   Note that the vehicle is restricted to a max of 3500kg with a trailer that may exceed 750kg. So the combined mass may exceed 3500 but the trailer may not exceed the tare mass of the towing vehicle unless service brakes are fitted in lieu of overrun brakes. 

 Also note section 115 that is added further down.   Note the requirement wrt a PDP (the sub-paras e, f and g somehow changed to a, b, c and I could not get the formatting altered to fix it ) even if you are just driving the schools cricket team to a match in your private vehicle.

 

A motor vehicle, excluding a motor cycle, motor tricycle, motor    quadrucycle, tractor and a motor vehicle which is a type of mobile agricultural or    industrial equipment or machinery not designed principally for the conveyance of persons    or goods, being--

(i) an articulated motor vehicle, of which the gross    combination mass of the truck-tractor does not exceed 3 500 kilograms;

(ii) a combination of--

(aa) a motor vehicle the tare of which does not exceed 3 500 kg; or

(bb) a mini-bus, bus or goods vehicle, the gross vehicle mass of which does not    exceed 3 500 kilograms,

with a trailer the gross vehicle mass of which exceeds 750 kilograms.

115. (1) Subject to the provisions of subregulation (2), a professional driving permit shall be held by the driver of--

  1. a goods vehicle, the gross vehicle mass of which exceeds 3 500 kilograms;
  2. a breakdown vehicle;
  3. a bus;
  4. a mini-bus--
  1. the gross vehicle mass of which exceeds 3 500 kilograms; or
  2. which is designed or adapted for the conveyance of 12 or more persons, including the      driver;
  1. a motor vehicle used for the conveyance of persons for reward;
  2. a vehicle carrying dangerous goods the gross vehicle mass of which exceeds 3 500    kilograms or a vehicle to which standard specification SABS 1398 "Road tank vehicles    for petroleum-based flammable liquids" or standard specification SABS 1518:    "Transportation of dangerous goods - design requirements for road tankers"    apply; and
  3. a motor vehicle conveying 12 or more persons including the driver.

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06 Aug 2013 @ 14:03:07 pm
Micha El
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Hi Reg and Butts,

This is a minefield, with apparently contradictory information at every turn. the link provided by Les above includes the following text:

Code EB: This is for a:
light motor vehicle that is articulated (light motor vehicle drawing a trailer) with a gross combination mass not exceeding 3 500 kg. You must be 18 years or older to apply
combination of a motor vehicle with a tare not exceeding 3 500 kg and a minibus, bus or goods vehicle with a gross vehicle mass not exceeding 3 500 kg. You must be 18 years or older to apply.

So who is right? And how will this be interpreted by a Traffic official?

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06 Aug 2013 @ 14:07:36 pm
Micha El
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Michael,
 
Very true.
Have tried to find the GVM for some motorhomes on the web. They don’t seem
to be too keen to give it and those that do are very close or over 3500 kg.
Doesn’t leave much left to choose from for the EB licence holder.


Reg,

AC Motorhomes, Vista, and Travelstar are all prepared to homologate their units so that they are registered with a GVW of 3500kg. This does mean that anyone with a B or EB licence would be able to drive them. I don't know about the other manufacturers, although I think that Motorhome World's Discoverer range also fall into this category.

Clearly this is only possible if the vehicle's tare once built is somewhat less than 3500kg to allow for a payload.

Michael
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06 Aug 2013 @ 16:23:16 pm
Butts
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The following is taken from the Dept of Transports manual for conducting a K53 test for the EB licence. From this I gather that an articulated vehicle is a truck-tractor (de horse!) with a semi-trailer or interlink which normally attaches to the tractor bmo a pivot and these eventually grow to 22 wheeler sizes or even more. For higher codes the truck-tractor has a greater mass.

As they specify a drawing vehicle and trailer as another option, I deduct that our camping business of car or bakkie with a van or boswa, etc, cannot be seen as "articulated"

"The following shall be required in order to conduct this test:
! a roadworthy articulated motor vehicle of which the gross combination mass of the truck-tractor is not more than 3500kg, or a combination of motor vehicles consisting of a drawing vehicle and a trailer, of which the tare/gross vehicle mass of the drawing
vehicle is not more than 3500kg, and the gross vehicle mass of the trailer is more than 750 kg, supplied by the applicant. This vehicle shall be equipped with a seat next to the driver, (no load is required)" Heh, heh - a weightless examiner sits there!!!!
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06 Aug 2013 @ 18:52:59 pm
Micha El
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I've been doing some Googling and found this website http://www.licencebookings.co.za/, which has the following description for the EB driver's licence (it is pretty much the same as all the others, just slightly clearer):

EB
A motor vehicle, excluding a motor cycle, motor tricycle, motor quadrucycle, tractor and a motor vehicle which is a type of mobile agricultural or industrial equipment or machinery not designed principally for the conveyance of persons or goods, being-
Includes authorisation to drive any motor vehicle for which a code B driving licence is required.

(i) an articulated motor vehicle, of which the gross combination mass of the truck-tractor does not exceed 3 500 kilograms;

(ii) a combination of-

(aa) a motor vehicle the tare of which does not exceed 3 500 kg; or

(bb) a mini-bus, bus or goods vehicle, the gross vehicle mass of which does not exceed 3 500 kilograms, with a trailer the gross vehicle mass of which exceeds 750 kilograms.

So it would appear that (i) applies to those little articulated "fifth-wheelers" based on one-ton bakkies that are used for moving low-mass, high volume goods - for example - where the connected rig has a GVM of up to 3500kg.

Where it gets interesting is in (ii) because a trailer of GVM greater than 750kg may be towed. Automatically one is limited to what the towing vehicle is legally able to tow (braked or unbraked). So it would seem that it is in fact legal for me to tow a vehicle behind my motorhome on an EB licence, provided that it falls within the law pertaining to vehicle mass. If it is braked, the towed vehicle may have a mass up to the tare of towing vehicle.

The challenge here, as has been pointed out before on this forum, is how? Or does one purchase a braked car trailer with it's attendant challenges? I really do not like the pushrod system shown in one of the illustrations of an a-frame.

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07 Aug 2013 @ 07:28:03 am
Butts
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Michael,  I support the interpretation in your second last para.

I have yet to find or hear of someone that has a trailer or van with "service brakes" and the fittings in the drawing vehicle to operate and apply the service brakes.

Perhaps someone knows somebody in the equestrian world that has a double horse box.   These tend to exceed the tare of the drawing vehicle and should thus be fitted with service brakes as per section 151 of the Road Regs.

Regards all.

Theo

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07 Aug 2013 @ 07:47:27 am
Micha El
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Good morning Butts,

When I first bought my Gazelle, we had a vacuum braking system installed, which worked a treat. However, I think that today's vehicles will not allow the installation of such a system because of the ABS, etc. (The vacuum braking had an actuator that was linked into the brake line at the master cylinder.)

Most caravans and horseboxes are fitted with the normal "overrun" braking system that operates through the hitch bearing onto a lever that operates the brakes - although relatively crude, it works fairly well, and is perfectly legal.

The a-frame illustration that I saw used a similar principle, but had a push-rod connected to the towed vehicle's brake pedal. I suspect that this is also legal, but I have my reservations about the effectiveness...
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07 Aug 2013 @ 08:04:56 am
Butts
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Morning Michael.  Overrun brakes are not legal if the GVM of the trailer exceeds the tare weight of the drawing vehicle.  They are not regarded as service brakes.  See the extract from section 151 of the Road Regs below:

 

  • the gross vehicle mass of such trailer exceeds 750 kilograms but does not exceed 3 500    kilograms and does not exceed the tare of the drawing vehicle, unless such trailer is    equipped with a parking brake and either an overrun brake or a service brake; or
  • the gross vehicle mass of such trailer exceeds the tare of the drawing vehicle or 3 500    kilograms, whichever the case may be, unless such trailer is equipped with a parking brake    and a service brake
  • Theo

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    07 Aug 2013 @ 08:11:40 am
    Neill and MArg
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    Well Butts, That sounds like rocket science, which I dont think our law enforcement people took as a subject.

    MArg

    Neill & MArg
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    07 Aug 2013 @ 08:35:09 am
    Micha El
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    I wonder how "service brake" is defined? Any ideas?

    If they are indeed to be operated automatically by the towing vehicle (without being overrun brakes) a good many people are towing illegally - many of the larger caravans and a good many of the off-road caravans and trailers are monstrously heavy...
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    07 Aug 2013 @ 10:10:59 am
    Butts
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    Hi Folks.  A service brake could be electrical, hydraulic or air operated and the driver of the drawing vehicle must be able to apply the service brake.  When I asked at the Ford and Isuzu dealerships about where is the service brake linkage on the new bakkies to enable the greater towing capacity, I got a strange look - but then I know they sell vehicles and are not knowledgeable about the legalities of the manufacturers claims.

    Note that if you tow a Venter behind the caravan, both must be fitted with service brakes as the combined GVM will probably exceed the tare of the drawing vehicle.

    The portion of the Regs that I did not copy is now appended below:

    "and where more than one trailer is drawn by a drawing vehicle, the foregoing  requirements shall apply in respect of each such trailer, and in such event the gross  vehicle mass shall be construed as the total of the gross vehicle mass of all trailers so  drawn.

    (2) The service brake of a trailer shall be capable of being operated by the driver of the drawing vehicle while such vehicle and drawing vehicle are in motion."

    The (2) above seems to imply that the operation should be independent from the braking system of the drawing vehicle and that it is definitely not a run-in or overrun system.  This I cannot confirm.

    Theo

    PS: This is quite an interesting topic!!!!

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    07 Aug 2013 @ 12:14:49 pm
    AndrePrinsloo
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    i must agree with alot of the statements i was lucky to get my EB license before the changes and the first time i towed a Caravan it was hell i was nervous did not know what how and were and needed to learn as we went but learned i did in the hard way.

    i just think its beter to do your license with a caravan or trailer and know what you are doing
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    15 May 2014 @ 07:37:53 am
    Herrie
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    I just got my EB licence the day before yesterday and I must admit that it was quite a stressful and frantic exercise! Luckily I found a very good instructor in the Krugersdorp area and after just one class with him both my brother in law and myself got the licence.

    If anybody would like to have any information regarding the test, or the contact details of the instructor please feel free to ask, it is still very fresh in my mind!
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    15 May 2014 @ 07:53:46 am
    Pieta
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    Geluk Harry nou het jy hom.

    Kamp Groete
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    15 May 2014 @ 08:11:25 am
    BrianB
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    Herman post the details I'm sure there  are members who will be able to use it.

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    15 May 2014 @ 08:21:40 am
    Herrie
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    Herman post the details I'm sure there  are members who will be able to use it.



    Here is the link to their website:
    http://www.agape-driving.co.za/

    As mentioned, they are in Krugersdorp and Deon is the one who can specifically help with the EB code.
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    09 Dec 2014 @ 19:59:29 pm
    Angie999
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    Hi,
    Hubby and I are doing the EB practical test in December. We too have had to wade through the misinterpretation/misunderstanding of what you can actually tow with the EB licence, but basically Butts is totally correct. There is however another aspect that has not been mentioned, which is the validity of your car insurance when pulling a hired trailer that you are not yet licenced to pull - assuming they will let you hire it in the first place without an EB. We are using a driving school trailer and instruction (Fun4All - Pretoria) who have had a trailer especially made that is braked and is 780kg GVM. Note it's the GVM and not the Tare that counts. Outsurance has advised me that I am only covered by insurance if there is the driving school instructor or test examiner with me. I believe that this is the same as allowing a Learner to drive your own car so long as a qualified driver is with them. EB parents teaching kids probably won't have this problem, but if you only have a B and want to use your own vehicle, please check your insurance will cover you in event of an accident first.
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    14 Oct 2018 @ 15:20:39 pm
    Rokko308
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    This nonsense EB have to go.

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    14 Oct 2018 @ 15:47:34 pm
    Anonymous

    Agree, wonder how many taxi drivers have a valid PPDP and how many truck drivers have a valid PDP?

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    30 Oct 2018 @ 14:35:38 pm
    Fransie
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    Paid and re-did my license just to get the EB.

    It wasn't easy, and yes  I did have to fork out money twice for booking a test and renting a trailer.

    Paid no bribes, just got it done.

    Worth it.

    WERK SE MOER
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    30 Oct 2018 @ 20:52:19 pm
    Brommer
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    EB is the best thing they could brng out as I have seen so many people towing caravans that have no clue and can not really reverse or park or even drive properly. I didnt find the EB too difficult, but did ask the driving schools for some tips and what is tested and what to know.. Helped a lot and lost only 6 marks on whole test.


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    30 Oct 2018 @ 21:15:25 pm
    steamer
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    Way back in the day, I had my army licence converted to civvie code 14 and I still have the EC licence. Guess I'm lucky.

    Your strongest weapon is your mind!
    And then there's, Power Tools!
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