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Talk about the different aspects of your tow car and tow advice.

Biscuit/Spacesaver

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08 Nov 2017 @ 08:03:59 am
Elleebee
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Goods day all.
does anyone have any advice/experience in having the biscuit-type spare wheel used when towing?
is it possible to use one?

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08 Nov 2017 @ 08:43:02 am
Nico
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I must be very honest in saying that I for one, will NOT attempt that. Too much load will be placed on the "biscuit" whether or not where it is to be placed - front or rear

By the same token, should the vehicle be without the caravan, it should be quite safe. Some years ago I was forced to travel from Bloemhof to Cape Town on a biscuit such as this, and could only find a replacement tyre for my Jetta CLi after some 1000 kms. I wrote to VW to advise them of my experiences where upon they mailed me a report where VW South Africa travelled from Jhb to CT to PE and back with a Jetta, equipped with 4 such biscuits on the car.

But, towing with this? No way!

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08 Nov 2017 @ 09:28:06 am
Campervan
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I must be very honest in saying that I for one, will NOT attempt that. Too much load will be placed on the "biscuit" whether or not where it is to be placed - front or rear

By the same token, should the vehicle be without the caravan, it should be quite safe. Some years ago I was forced to travel from Bloemhof to Cape Town on a biscuit such as this, and could only find a replacement tyre for my Jetta CLi after some 1000 kms. I wrote to VW to advise them of my experiences where upon they mailed me a report where VW South Africa travelled from Jhb to CT to PE and back with a Jetta, equipped with 4 such biscuits on the car.

But, towing with this? No way!



Nico, I would rather travel ith four of these biscuits than a single one on any vehiclefor which they are equipped. I think that travelling extented distances with only onecannot be good for the suspension and drive-train of the vehicle, but this is just my opinion.
I will not purchase a vehicle with a biscuit wheel, unless I have the intention of purchasing another same type rim once the vehicle has been purchased. I normally even purchase a mag for the spare if the vehicle only comes out with four mag's.
For my Caveran, I have the same rims and tyre size asthe towing vehicle and the same for the caveran spare & towing vehicle spare, as well as an additional spare for the towing vehicle. I thus have nine tyres and rims for the two vehicles.
A bit of an overkill maybe, but where I travel, if you have difficulties they are not easily solved and purchasing a spare close to the ends of the earth, costs the earth/arm & a leg...
On The Road Again
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08 Nov 2017 @ 09:31:15 am
Elleebee
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thanks for the responses. i am interested in the Audi Q7 - but i think they are only equipped with the biscuit,
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08 Nov 2017 @ 11:12:12 am
Dieter
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My Touareg has a space saver you inflate using the onboard compressor. It is made by Vredenstein tyres witha model no 195/75R18 106P. 

Load rating = 950kg per tyre

Speed rating = 150km/h

The current Pirelli Scorpion tyres I have on the Touareg are 255/55R18 109V

Load rating = 1030kg per tyre

Speed rating = 240km/h

So this means I can travel using the space saver at 150km/h with a load of 950kg on that tyre. Taking in account the up and down forces on the towbar by the caravan I will be well within the limits to tow my caravan using the space saver.

 

I think the Q7 use the same type of tyre so don't discount the Q7 because of that.

 

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08 Nov 2017 @ 12:19:35 pm
Elleebee
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My Touareg has a space saver you inflate using the onboard compressor. It is made by Vredenstein tyres witha model no 195/75R18 106P. 

Load rating = 950kg per tyre

Speed rating = 150km/h

The current Pirelli Scorpion tyres I have on the Touareg are 255/55R18 109V

Load rating = 1030kg per tyre

Speed rating = 240km/h

So this means I can travel using the space saver at 150km/h with a load of 950kg on that tyre. Taking in account the up and down forces on the towbar by the caravan I will be well within the limits to tow my caravan using the space saver.

 

I think the Q7 use the same type of tyre so don't discount the Q7 because of that.

 

thanks Dieter. this is more ore less what Audi told me, just speed restriction on the tyre. i have also found a place in Pretoria where i can get a full alloy rim and tyre (used) for R2500 so i am definately looking at the Audi
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08 Nov 2017 @ 12:27:23 pm
Elleebee
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My Touareg has a space saver you inflate using the onboard compressor. It is made by Vredenstein tyres witha model no 195/75R18 106P. 

Load rating = 950kg per tyre

Speed rating = 150km/h

The current Pirelli Scorpion tyres I have on the Touareg are 255/55R18 109V

Load rating = 1030kg per tyre

Speed rating = 240km/h

So this means I can travel using the space saver at 150km/h with a load of 950kg on that tyre. Taking in account the up and down forces on the towbar by the caravan I will be well within the limits to tow my caravan using the space saver.

 

I think the Q7 use the same type of tyre so don't discount the Q7 because of that.

 

can you re-use the tyre?
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08 Nov 2017 @ 12:37:13 pm
Nico
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Audi Q7?

As a towing vehicle?

Lucky fish!

Damn, I am NOT jealous, this is just a purple shine on my face ........cool

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08 Nov 2017 @ 12:39:16 pm
Elleebee
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Audi Q7?

As a towing vehicle?

Lucky fish!

Damn, I am NOT jealous, this is just a purple shine on my face ........cool

used and i have not bought it yet
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08 Nov 2017 @ 13:12:41 pm
Dieter
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can you re-use the tyre?

Definitely! 

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08 Nov 2017 @ 18:32:18 pm
Bostoe
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Nee verseker nee risk te groot
Haak daai wa kamp bly koning
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08 Nov 2017 @ 21:26:46 pm
Danie-SLK
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Interesting thoughts around a space saver. There should be no more wear/strain due to the space saver travelling solo. One must bear in mind the narrow wheel has less friction so it turns easier and used less fuel. If the load rating is high enough as Dieter indicated I am sure one can travel a good distance as Nico had to do. I also belief there is a safety factor in the speed rating of these tyres.

I would not push a car I like to the side just because of a space saver. If one does want piece of mind one can buy a mag or steel rim and travel with it while towing. Solo I would not worry because of the space saver but it might cause one to get to your destination after exstra hours on ther road.

Just another question. We talk a lot of using tyres only for 5 years. What about the space saver?

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09 Nov 2017 @ 07:17:49 am
Fred
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My Kuga also came out with such a spare but I replaced it with a regular tyre- ordered with the car.  Ford left just enough space for a full sized spare. I don't  think the Kuga's spare is rated as high as the ones mentioned above.  You are advised to travel at no more than 60k/u and not more than 60 kilos. With the Kuga I would certainly be loath to use this while towing.  My opinion is that such tyres as well as run flats, should be illegal. If your tyre blows out in the sticks, far from town, it might be a problem. The tyre has to be inflated to a very high pressure and if you forget to check the pressure, you might find yourself without a useful spare anyway.

Het is beter rijk te leven dan rijk te sterven
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09 Nov 2017 @ 07:43:19 am
Nico
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I am inclined to agree with Fred's findings. Recommendation from VW (and my Audi in fact) is max 80km/h for 80 kms total.

I had to use such a tyre on the front of my Jetta VR6 and once on my Audi rear. To do a higher than recommended speed is not really a problem, but, when corners are brought into the equation the vehicle definately seems to be rolling on the tyre more, due to less grip. I will therefore also then recommend that the tyre is used at the REAR where steering input is not important, but that brings the loading of the caravan onto the rear of the vehicle back into the picture.

Thus, to go with a full size spare is certainly the way to go.

Also had the situation when I wanted to buy a BMW X3 ... runflats for towing is a no-go. Then BMW wanted to charge me an extra R 16000 for normal tyres but .... where to put the spare?

Danie's question about the life/age expectancy for the biscuit is also important ... I have not seen any cracks on my spare but, ja, it makes one think!

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09 Nov 2017 @ 15:20:52 pm
Danie-SLK
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Nico very interesting to hear how BMW try to make more bucks. Surely with run flats costing what they do you should have got a good discount. After the body damage a friend had when a run flat disentegrated he changed all 4 tyres to normal tyres.

Someone did mention that MB advise against towing anything with a space saver on the ML range.

What is important is to use the space saver at the back as Nico pointed out. Easier to keep control with a damaged back tyre than not being able to point the car in the right direction.

Lets have a look at some facts. My car space saver has a load rating of 560kg. The normal tyres only 475kg. Is it thus safe to use the space saver withing the speed and distance limitation? My answer is yes. This is on a car with a tare of 1050kg.

As we know our max tow ball weight is 100kg. It thus means an exstra 50kg while towing per tyre. The stability would not be as per a normal tyre but at reduced speed and a load rating of nearly 100kg more for the space saver I will not stress using a space saver. While driving there could be a higher load than the towing 50kg per tyre but it is intermittent and no problem.

Towing at 80 would not be a train smash as I normally tow at 100. With my bed behind me I can sleep any where.

Even using the load rating of Dieters car there is no way even when towing that the space saver would even be close to the 950kg.

A lot of us are towing vans where the normal weight is close to the max for the tyre but we don't stress. Why are we looking for something to worry about?

My last point would be that a tyre only bursts at over 170 degrees. By stopping every 30min and feeling the temp of the space saver will get you where you want to go. Just dodge the Mpumalanga potholes :)

No need to worry about the 80% of things that never happen - rather preserve your energy for the 20% that do happen and do the best you can.

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09 Nov 2017 @ 15:27:32 pm
Elleebee
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thank you for all the responses. i dont know if this will change anyone's opinion but it is a runflat tyre. would your opinions be the same?
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09 Nov 2017 @ 15:45:08 pm
Danie-SLK
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Fred jou laaste punt is ook van toepassing op 'n gewone spaarwiel. Pap is albei ewe useless.

As dit goed genoeg is vir Volvo wat baie gesteld is op veiligheid dan sal dit goed wees vir my.

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09 Nov 2017 @ 17:13:46 pm
Fred
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Danie, Waarom ek die dun willietjie uitsonder is omdat hy 'n baie hoë druk het- ek meen die Kuga s'n is meer as 4bar (of wat ookal die eenheid is), en die volume is klein.  'n Groot band is nog bruikbaar teen 1 bar maar die dun wielletjie sal op die grond lê met so 'n lae druk.  Natuurlik moet 'n mens jou spaarwiel gedurig nagaan, maar omdat die ding gewoonlik bietjie moeilik is om by te kom, vergeet ek- en waarskynlik ander ouens ook, soms om dit te doen. Die banddrukmonitors veroorsaak ook dat dit so maklik is om die vier of ses bande te kan nagaan.  Ek haat die mariebiscuitbandjies en dis moeilik vir my on enige goed in hulle te sien.  Omdat hulle volgens die specs, net vir 'n kort afstand gebruik kan word, behoort die band vervang te word na een keer se gebruik. Dit klink my die Ford s'n is nie van dieselfde kwaliteit as Volvo s'n nie.  Maar ek moet sê, pap wiele kom eintlik maar baie min voor, so miskien is dit 'n storm in 'n teekoppie.  Maar as dit jou tref, is dit baie ernstig.

Nog 'n probleem is dat my dun bandjie aansienlik kleiner in omtrek is as die volgrootteband.  Omdat my voertuig 'n AWD is met allerhande monitors wat die kleinste verskil in omwenteling van wiele optel en daarvoor vergoed deur oa so 'n wiel te rem,  vermoet ek sterk die gebruik van die klein wielietjie kan my kar beskadig. Ek kon nog geen bevredigende antwoord hierop op internet opspoor nie.  Die ding lê in my pad in die garage en ek verwens Ford telkens as ek hom sien. Iemand wat syne gebruik het en 'n nuwe nodig het?  Ons kan oor die prys onderhandelundecided

Het is beter rijk te leven dan rijk te sterven
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09 Nov 2017 @ 17:49:26 pm
Danie-SLK
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Fred weereens het ek iets hier geleer. Ek wou nog antwoord maar toe gaan kyk ek eerder. Het nog nooit gehoor van kleiner in omtrek en siedaar myne is ook kleiner met 10%. So ja weens die ewenaar se werking sal mens nie so iets gemaklik wil opsit nie en daarom is daar vir sekere voertuie 'n beperking op die afstand wat mens kan ry. Ek kan dus verstaan hoekom jy gekant is weens die omtrek.

Ek is ook nie bewus van die feit dat hulle vervang moet word na 1 keer se gebruik nie. Ek glo wel hulle sal meer slytasie toon as die gewone band maar kan dit nie bevestig nie.

Ek het my dinge gebaseer op die feit dat ons nie slimmer is om die normale spoed en dravermoee te bevraagteken nie maar praat van space saver dan glo ons nie wat die vervaardigers aandui nie. My spoed syfer is bv M wat vir tot 130km/h is. Sou dieselfde geld vir 'n sleepvoeruig is daar mos nie fout met die dravermoee wat meer is en spoed faktor wat voldoende is. As mens teen meer as 130km/h wil sleep dan moet mens eerder by die huis bly.

Ek glo mens moet aanpasbaar wees as iets jou sou tref maar daar is ander meer ernstige dinge wat ons kan oorkom. Ons lewe is nie eers gewaarborg en 'n gawe op ons gestort.

Dalk kan jy sommer hier die deursnit van jou space saver gee as iemand sou belangstel.

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09 Nov 2017 @ 22:04:22 pm
Fred
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Danie, Ons is in Stilbaai en die space saverband is in Pietersburg.  Die normale band is 235 mm en die dunnetjie s omtrent die hefte so breed, maar ek kan nie onthou presies hoeveel nie.  Die beperkte afstand en vervanging na 'n enkele gebruik is nie agv die evenaar nie- die band is blykbaar nie gebou vir 'n lang afstand nie.  Ek het dit gelees, of in die handboek of op internet.  Ek sal more dit probeer opspoor.  Dit klink my alle space saver bande is nie eenders nie.

Het is beter rijk te leven dan rijk te sterven
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