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Talk about the different aspects of your tow car and tow advice.

Advice to Newbie on Kitting Out Prado TX 3 D Auto

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25 Feb 2015 @ 20:22:38 pm
Bushbug
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The more I get into the hands of Fitment Centers the more confused I become. Estimated costs keep rising.
For 4 x 4 Camping I will end up with a Explorer 140 or similar or Xcape by Jurgens.

What Tow Bar is Best for this Job and should it have Stabalisers .

Do I need to modify and/or Lift suspension.

I probably need another Forum for advice on Bull Bar/ Dual Battery system and how to charge Batteries in Trailer etc.

Hoping for Guidance by seasoned Campers !!!
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25 Feb 2015 @ 20:53:37 pm
Anonymous

Brian welcome, just hangon, someone is bound to have advise.

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25 Feb 2015 @ 21:07:31 pm
Johan Hall
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Welcome to the forum, someone will give you the correct advice.

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25 Feb 2015 @ 21:24:25 pm
Karoo Klong
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Brian,welkom,miskien kan van die ou drade van hulp wees ,lees die argiewe anders sal jy die antwoorde hier bekom.
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25 Feb 2015 @ 21:41:17 pm
HM
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Welcome Bushbug. I agree, wrong forum to seriosy kit out a Prado for your requirements.

I can think of only one person here that might add value to your question. Lets see if he responds.

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25 Feb 2015 @ 22:29:12 pm
Brommer
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Search dual battery systems on google.. ee who specialises in them and visit different peopke and listen to opinions and what makes sense.. going with the flow might be your thing, maybe not.. 

 

Also search for portable camping solar if your requirement is that, and do the same, go look at who offers what...

Look at different methods and designs on bullbars etc.. you ight want spots, look at LED bars and I have seen some nice ones in the range of visionx, R7000 a pair, but beautiful!

 

Try and look at the top 5 suppliers and manufacturers of each.. and trust me, a forum can be just as misleading in some cases, hence my suggestion to go out and listen who knows what, and who will be able to give vacup support in future..

 

I fitted shicks with lifetime warranty, come new owners, it falls away.. paid huge amount for them... but, and it is a huge BUT, do not buy something if your not going to use it, unless you have the money to burn... take your absolute necesary kit items first, then cosmetics..

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25 Feb 2015 @ 22:38:28 pm
Bushbug
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Wow ! What a welcome, Thanks

Now I started my quest for knowledge on Towing. Tow Bars for Prado for 4 x 4 Off Road Large Camper/Trailer , alternative to Tow a Off Road Caravan. Stabalisers or not and Mods to Suspension , if required.

That led to Dual Battery Charging system that can charge Batteries in Trailer ?
The rest belongs in another Forum !!
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25 Feb 2015 @ 23:06:42 pm
HM
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Welcome Bushbug. I agree, wrong forum to seriosy kit out a Prado for your requirements.

I can think of only one person here that might add value to your question. Lets see if he responds.

Be patient Brian. 

With regards to the towbar my suggestion is to fit a Toyota approved one. 

Here is a website for Toyota Landcruise/Prado owners that might be of value.

http://za.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/forum/24-toyota-landcrusier-prado/

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25 Feb 2015 @ 23:36:42 pm
Bushbug
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I tried the Toyota Owners Club and as a member of your referenced Forum above- No replies. It is a seldom used site !!
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25 Feb 2015 @ 23:47:20 pm
HM
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Sorry about that.

Have you tried the 4X4 Community Forum? I am not shooting this forum down but I gather you are considering more serious off-road adventures in the future.

 

 

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26 Feb 2015 @ 00:26:39 am
Bushbug
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Very little on Towing, it seems that most 4x4 community members prefer fully equipped 4x4 vehicle with Roof Top Tent or Pitching a Tent .

Hence I turned to the Caravan Group, where I could cross fertilise ideas !

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26 Feb 2015 @ 06:56:15 am
It'l dodat
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Hi Bush-bug, welcome...

Well....

A l-o-o-o-ng list, perhaps I can add 3 Zim Dollars worth..

Ok, so let's start.

You make mention of both ends of your vehicle, the bull bar and the tow-bar. then you indicate you want dual charging, and ask if you need to upgrade suspension on the Prado...

Well, it all depends what your intended use is for the rig (van & tug, tug = vehicle)

Outfitting for completly off-grid, serious off-road destinations would be somewhat different to destinations where you only need to go rough roading / gravel roads (but still off grid) and again different if you intend to only go to where there are provided facilities, such as a bush  down a smooth gravel road to an established camp / caravan park.

Upgrading the suspension... Wow! that's gonna costa-plenty. Again, unless you're going to use the suspension because of the road conditions, (or lack thereof) the existing suspension is more than capable (IE I personally wouldn't upgrade just because your'e towing).

Towbar.....Ensure that the tow bar that is fitted IS RATED FOR WHAT YOU INTEND TO TOW, and a bit more in-case you want to go bigger later... Then, just to make your life hell, If you add a drop plate to the hitch, then you negate all the ratings anyway... A standard coupling should sit 400mm off the ground when the vehicle is loaded... Sigh...... SA is becomming a nanny state... Most of this is Insurance driven anyway...

There are 2 weights involved, a "nose weight" of between 80 - 100Kg and a rolling force, which is the force required to tow the weight of your loaded van. This rolling force is road surface dependant so make sure you take "soft sand" into consideration... mail me at quality@pcplastics.co.za and I'll give you the formulae, but you can also google it...

Stabilisers.... A stabiliser is not there to correct a badly set-up rig. You need to get the rig correct & towing stable FIRST!, Then by all means, add the stabiliser for additional assistance WHEN THINGS GET OUT OF HAND.. And yes, it's generally a good thing, but it may intefere when off roading, (extrieme approach / cresting / departure  & sideways rocking) so look out for that. (There is a 3 way coupling that allows for this type of terrein, to overcome the limitations of the standard 50mm ball coupling, but that a completly different discussion)

Some pointers about staility...

Fishtailing is sideway's movement at the rear of the van with no discernable change in the sideway's levellness of the van

Sway is where you can see a change in the sideways levellness of the van.

Both of these conditions are mostly attributed to bad packing / load distribution of the van, then tyre pressures of the van...

Your rig's towing attitude should be level or slightly nose down, the nose weight between 80 - 100 kg, and pack so that the weight is 60 / 40 distributed in the van... 60 in front of the axel, 40 behind, with the heavy items over the axel.

Generally It is alway's better to tow weight than to carry weight, but having said that, see what weighty things you can put into the vehicle.

Duel battery systems...An entire enclyopedia.... The principal is to have a seperate battery to run appliances that is charged by the vehicle but is isolated when not being charged so that the vehicle's battries do not get drained... Some pointers..

The closer the battery is to what's charging the better... If possible put the battery in the engine compartment and run the cable to the trailer through sa Brad-Harrison connector, rather than the battery in the trailer...

Use a deep cycle battery... There is a difference in the application / draw / use between an automotive battery and a deep cycle... I would look at at least 100 - 110 AH battery...

The thicker the cables are, the better... Joins should be lugs & and bolts and properly fastened and routed.

 

Careful who installs your dual system there are a lot of cowboys out there, it needs to be done properly...

Bull bars.... Shoe.....

Bush-pig, these guys kill me for long & technical & boring posts, (which I find incredably interesting) and bull bars are sorta out of the radar for this forum.. mail me, and I'll gladly give more in-put...

Hope this helps a little

Regards

Warren

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Slightly quicker downhill....
These days a teeny-tiny bit more slightly quicker....
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26 Feb 2015 @ 07:05:32 am
Chuck Norris
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Dag se, Welkom op die forum.
Het self die XT 140 vir 6jr gesleep met Hilux D4D 4X4. Het nie stabalisers op gehad nie, die maak dit moeilik met kort draai en oor rowwe terein.

Tans op die Explorer met die Fortuner het ek ook nie stabalisers op nie, geen probleem tot tans ondervind sonder dit nie.

Het op die XT van die voertuig af die battery gelaai vir die yskas.
Tans dieselfde op die Explorer en geen probleme.
Met die Prado en XT sal jy nie probleme ondervind met enige swaai van die XT nie, hy loop stil agter die voertuig. Moet nie geld mors.

TOV die toubar is Toyata die beste alhoewel hy bietjie duurder is, andersins kan jy by enige geakrediteerde firma een laat opsit.
Maak net seker dit kan die gewig dra en sleep.

Indie jy sukkel of nog twyfel los jou nommer dan kan ons gesels.




As jy wil he jou drome moet waar word, moet jy eers wakker word.

Die jonge Fransies. (Parys - Frankryk)
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26 Feb 2015 @ 09:54:31 am
HM
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In my opinion the right members have now come to the party. I follow with interest. I am sure others will also be interested so don't go the e-mail route please.

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26 Feb 2015 @ 10:02:00 am
Hagar
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Brian, welcome to this forum. It seems that you are in good hands. Enjoy and share your adventures.

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26 Feb 2015 @ 10:42:59 am
Hagar
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Brian, welcome to this forum. It seems that you are in good hands. Enjoy and share your adventures.

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26 Feb 2015 @ 13:37:02 pm
Bushbug
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Hi Bush-bug, welcome...

Well....

A l-o-o-o-ng list, perhaps I can add 3 Zim Dollars worth..

Ok, so let's start.

You make mention of both ends of your vehicle, the bull bar and the tow-bar. then you indicate you want dual charging, and ask if you need to upgrade suspension on the Prado...

Well, it all depends what your intended use is for the rig (van & tug, tug = vehicle)

Outfitting for completly off-grid, serious off-road destinations would be somewhat different to destinations where you only need to go rough roading / gravel roads (but still off grid) and again different if you intend to only go to where there are provided facilities, such as a bush  down a smooth gravel road to an established camp / caravan park.

Upgrading the suspension... Wow! that's gonna costa-plenty. Again, unless you're going to use the suspension because of the road conditions, (or lack thereof) the existing suspension is more than capable (IE I personally wouldn't upgrade just because your'e towing).

Towbar.....Ensure that the tow bar that is fitted IS RATED FOR WHAT YOU INTEND TO TOW, and a bit more in-case you want to go bigger later... Then, just to make your life hell, If you add a drop plate to the hitch, then you negate all the ratings anyway... A standard coupling should sit 400mm off the ground when the vehicle is loaded... Sigh...... SA is becomming a nanny state... Most of this is Insurance driven anyway...

There are 2 weights involved, a "nose weight" of between 80 - 100Kg and a rolling force, which is the force required to tow the weight of your loaded van. This rolling force is road surface dependant so make sure you take "soft sand" into consideration... mail me at quality@pcplastics.co.za and I'll give you the formulae, but you can also google it...

Stabilisers.... A stabiliser is not there to correct a badly set-up rig. You need to get the rig correct & towing stable FIRST!, Then by all means, add the stabiliser for additional assistance WHEN THINGS GET OUT OF HAND.. And yes, it's generally a good thing, but it may intefere when off roading, (extrieme approach / cresting / departure  & sideways rocking) so look out for that. (There is a 3 way coupling that allows for this type of terrein, to overcome the limitations of the standard 50mm ball coupling, but that a completly different discussion)

Some pointers about staility...

Fishtailing is sideway's movement at the rear of the van with no discernable change in the sideway's levellness of the van

Sway is where you can see a change in the sideways levellness of the van.

Both of these conditions are mostly attributed to bad packing / load distribution of the van, then tyre pressures of the van...

Your rig's towing attitude should be level or slightly nose down, the nose weight between 80 - 100 kg, and pack so that the weight is 60 / 40 distributed in the van... 60 in front of the axel, 40 behind, with the heavy items over the axel.

Generally It is alway's better to tow weight than to carry weight, but having said that, see what weighty things you can put into the vehicle.

Duel battery systems...An entire enclyopedia.... The principal is to have a seperate battery to run appliances that is charged by the vehicle but is isolated when not being charged so that the vehicle's battries do not get drained... Some pointers..

The closer the battery is to what's charging the better... If possible put the battery in the engine compartment and run the cable to the trailer through sa Brad-Harrison connector, rather than the battery in the trailer...

Use a deep cycle battery... There is a difference in the application / draw / use between an automotive battery and a deep cycle... I would look at at least 100 - 110 AH battery...

The thicker the cables are, the better... Joins should be lugs & and bolts and properly fastened and routed.

 

Careful who installs your dual system there are a lot of cowboys out there, it needs to be done properly...

Bull bars.... Shoe.....

Bush-pig, these guys kill me for long & technical & boring posts, (which I find incredably interesting) and bull bars are sorta out of the radar for this forum.. mail me, and I'll gladly give more in-put...

Hope this helps a little

Regards

Warren

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Hi Mars Member & Others,

Very valuable input, Thank You, I will try to clarify some issues which may help in narrowing the search field.

Warren, you will have seen the request to stay on the Forum and not move to PM or email !!

Prado 3 D Auto TX (Normal Suspension) New Tyres Hankook A/T 265/65R17 Dynapro 110T. Use Van & Tug, Most likely to Tow JURGENS SAFARI XCAPE.

Territory to cover, Eastern Cape, Northern Cape, Most of Namibia, Zambia, Parts of Zim., inc Game Reserves. Moz. Camping in Camp/Caravan park But frequently alone , off grid & camps

Off Road Capacity required- Mountains, Sand, Mud and Gravel.

So I need to Fit a Tow Bar Capacity to Tow say 2 000 KG. Probably 100Kg at at Tow Ball. Preferably adjustable so smaller Trailers can be used occasionally e.g. Venter.

So what is first choice Tow Bar ?

I have already decided on Duel Battery. TX Praso has space on Drivers side in engine Bay for 102 A/H Deep Cycle, 16mm Cables. I need to decide on which Control Unit e.g. Luna/ Ctek etc.

If we can get this done then we can have fun with the rest of rig !!

Thanks Brian



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26 Feb 2015 @ 17:25:10 pm
It'l dodat
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Bwhahahahawha… maar hulle terg my erg…. Hulle se my koppie raas…

But enough of feeling sorry for myself….

Ok jokes aside. I’m asked to post open so I will, but please don’t shoot the messenger…

Terms: - Hitch = car side / ball ............... Coupling = van side / goes onto ball..

Now to towbar specifics… (And I’m really, really trying to keep it simple)

Just checking up on your 2000 Kg rolling resistance estimation

Your Xcape clocks in at 1400 GVM

(Nutshell....) Rolling co-efficient is the force that is required to pull the van, and is dependent on surface, so let’s first look at worst case cenario, loose dry sand (IE dry soft beach sand / dunes)

Loose sand has an estimated co-efficient of between 0.2 – 0.4,  Hard gravel 0.04 – 0.08 and Tar is 0.03

CALC ON LOOSE SOFT BEACH TYPE SAND

Formulae: - Rolling resist = (Rolling co-efficient * weight * 9.81M/second squared)

0.3 *1400 * 9.81 = 4120 N convert to Kg = 4120 (near enough)

So by my reckoning, (gradient excluded) in loose dry beach sand you are looking at a rolling resistance of closer to 4000 Kg

SAME CALC ON HARD SAND

Rolling resist = (Rolling co-efficient * weight * 9.81M/second squared)

0.08 * 1400 * 9.81 =   1098 … Hellava difference

Now factoring in a gradient of 15Deg up, add 25% of the van’s weight to the result of the equation so the final rolling resistance is 1098 + (1400 / 4) = 1448

Enjoy playing with the maths! I’m just giving you the theory so that you can make better decisions, and possibly save a lot of money…

The standard Toyota tow-bar is more than adequate to handle this rolling resistance, but a word of caution, there is a vast difference between rolling force and “shock-force” Never ever ever use the ball as a recovery attachment point. No matter what anybody else says…

Cascading of loading…. Check that your hitch is mounted with rated hardware (bolts & nuts, 8.8 minimum, steel) (the bolt head is marked 8.8), and that they have been torqued to the correct torque. To much and the thread deforms and weakens, too little and not enough force transfer happens between the bits being bolted together… (long-story)...

Word of caution, CHECK THE DARN FITMENT YOURSELF!

Stand corrected, but the Xcape is designed to be the correct towing attitude (level) without a drop plate… Hitch-n-see, otherwise a drop plate is needed…

Type of hitch… Personally, I prefer the pintle yoke where the pin is not an integral part of the ball. (Safety chain & coupling connected through two different places)..

Dual charging.... Not shure which of the 2 is the better, National Lunar or Ctek, I think both are OK but the problems are in how they are fitted...

I opted to not go the dual system... My battery set up is 2 * 100A high capacity battries connected in parrallel, and I carry a 140W 8A solar panel... Mainly for a 50L waco compressor freezer.

Again a moerse lot of maths there: - amps / draw / volts, but if you want I'll go over it again...

Now to bull bar...

Terminology... 

Nudge bar.... Typically smallish bar over the middle of the grill, usually croamed

Bull bar.... Black steel pipe type of fabrication across the full front, sometimes extending round the sides

Integrated bumber: - very fancy bumper that caters for a winch...

I assume you mean the black steel pipe fabrication type... Are you going to fit a winch???? 

I'll leave it there....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Slightly quicker downhill....
These days a teeny-tiny bit more slightly quicker....
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26 Feb 2015 @ 22:31:28 pm
Bushbug
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Great Information and I enjoyed the Maths.
Given such Load Factors, would you fit a EGT on a Diesel engine or a System Monitor ?

Would you fit a Hayman Reese Heavy tow bar or Thule ( Little information available)or Autobar unit or Steelrite or Bosal or finally FRONT RUNNER DETACHABLE TOW BAR / TOYOTA PRADO 120 & 150 ??

Front Protection- Looking at Black Ironman. No Winch now. 45 Kg up front is more then enough !

Very Surprised on your Battery system- you loose one- you have lost both !

C-Tek 230 versus NLuna Versus Piranha Battery Isolator or TJM Battery Isolator.
On long run I would like to charge Battery's in Camper after Crank & Dual are fully Charged .

Thanks & Cheers for now
Brian
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26 Feb 2015 @ 22:45:03 pm
Brommer
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You dontneed 16mm cables for a front dual battery, it is way over spec.. choose right system and battery and you can go 4mm wire or at most 6.. there are batteries that can charge fast, ie 0.5C and others only 0.2C.. get charging system to match that can take the heat and is reliable for longer periods.. on solar, good portable solar can help a lot if standing at some place for a day or two, but again, with the right dual battery system, you only need 1 hour charging to supply fridge with 10 to 12 hours running time..
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27 Feb 2015 @ 07:01:32 am
It'l dodat
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Engine management / monitoring..... I'm not sure what EGT is? so I reserve comment, other than to say get more knowledgable in-put... Although you tug is extriemely capable some kind of second monitoring system can  do no harm, and gives you that nice warm fuzzy tummy feeling...

Towbars again.....

Personally Hyman Reese..

Stay away from Steelite (I know exactly what goes for what there, (I used to work right next door to them....) & Bosal, I don't much care for.

I'm not familiar with the Front runner towbar, but based on other Front-runner product that I had the misfortune to buy.... Install.... Sit back with a warm fuzzy feeling in my belly.... Then realise what a lot of *%%$#%$#...... Then when I complained at the Landy festival, I got the cold sholder treatment.....

Thule I'm not convinced that it's man for the job, but that's my opinion... Seen lot's of them, I  just don't like.

BTW, you might be tempted to extend the reach of the towbar to get under the spare... DO NOT USE those 50 x 50-square-bar-welded-between-two-drop-plates! That is for bycycle racks, and not meant as a towing adaptor... As they are presented in some retail outlets!

While on the subject of towing............... You mention destination Zambia...... You mght like to revise your plan to take the van there, and rather set up your tug to be the platform..

Right then, back to dual systems..... Th only heavy-draw equipment that I have is my winch, which I connected to the battery with 16mm welding cable. My Jumper cables are specially made up with the same 16mm cable. Personally, and with respect to Expo, over spec on cable thickness is not a bad thing (less voltage drop ETC), 

Not really, If one goes then I disconnect one and ther is enough to crank. If both fail (leave lights on or some other stupid thing I do.... At my age quite frequently actually) Then I have my Solar panels to revive some life...

My set up is calculated around refridgeration...

3A / H draw for 24H = 72A

Say 10H sunlight at 8A = 80A charge, so the battery stayes charged. But if no sun then 

200A supply / 72H draw = 2 days reserve... Ye, yes I know THEORY.... But I keep a 110 A deep cycle hidden away in my butt ugly trailer thingie just for in-case....

Works for me, I Chose to put the bucks into Solar, proper fridge / freezer rather than dual charge, I'm on a budget... I got 2 grandkids and a 34 year old man-kid...

Seriously I just think it's more versitile...

Comming to Solar.... Solar panels are definately the way to go... Speak to Tom or Willie @ TBV Solar they will definately give you accurate advice...

Refridgeration.......... Off grid, the only way to go is compressor fridge / freezer. (National lunar / Waco ETC... Stay away from Campmaster) make sure the unit you get has a Grinfoss pump they are indestructable and spares are readilly available..

But it is power hungry, work on about 3A draw per Hour...., Work out you need and speak to the guys at TBV..

Back to bull bar... You mentioned protection... That's ok, you have a purpose for having it, You might like to make sure it is winch compatable, and big enough to take an adequatly sized winch in the future... (your tug's big-n-heavy) consider being able to put in at least a 12,000Lb (6Ton) winch... I Like to be able to see my cable being spooled up.... Consider Plasma rope to reduce weight... But that's perhaps for the future.

I gotta go and mine some salt, I'll post pictures later

 

 

Slightly quicker downhill....
These days a teeny-tiny bit more slightly quicker....
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27 Feb 2015 @ 09:00:47 am
It'l dodat
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Photos... When I find the bloody things, I'll add to them...

Slightly quicker downhill....
These days a teeny-tiny bit more slightly quicker....
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27 Feb 2015 @ 11:58:48 am
Chuck Norris
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Kyk my berekening kennis is goed maar hierbo is darm vir jou somme wat n optelmasjien sal laat dink.
As jy wil he jou drome moet waar word, moet jy eers wakker word.

Die jonge Fransies. (Parys - Frankryk)
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27 Feb 2015 @ 12:02:01 pm
Bushbug
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Hi Warren,

Great input, very valuable. Have been doing field research and fully agree with most of your advice. ( Dual Battery system ?) but you sneaked in with your Spare Batt).

EGT Exhaust Gas Temperature measured at Exhaust Manifold. Particular to Turbo Diesel Load.

I will be Back
Thank You.
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27 Feb 2015 @ 15:59:33 pm
Bostoe
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Sien daar Brain jy goeie idees gekry ek stem 4x4 community forum sal jy ook idees optel sterkte
Haak daai wa kamp bly koning
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27 Feb 2015 @ 16:16:58 pm
Boens
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Hi Brian, you've received a lot of info. I want to add one thing. Your Prado is expensive and I found with mine, that the load bay is very soft skinned on the inside. With a load for the bundu and with lots of packing in and out, of hard pointy stuff, the panels damage beyond repair. Consider investing in the canvas type covers which are custom made. That is one of the reasons that I now do my camping with a bouble cab.

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01 Mar 2015 @ 16:28:41 pm
HM
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Hi Warren,

Great input, very valuable. Have been doing field research and fully agree with most of your advice. ( Dual Battery system ?) but you sneaked in with your Spare Batt).

EGT Exhaust Gas Temperature measured at Exhaust Manifold. Particular to Turbo Diesel Load.

I will be Back
Thank You.

I am enjoying this thread. 

It always worries me that I might be overheating the turbo when towing on long uphills, What i do is change down manually (auto box) till I get to a speed that I can maintain without having to floor the pedal.  But is it enough?

Maybe a pyrometer to measure the EGT is not such a bad idea.undecided

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01 Mar 2015 @ 18:11:19 pm
Brommer
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I have clients now measuring gbox temp etc as well?? I guess that makes a difference to know as well ? I am not in mechanics.. but i believe if gbox works hard when towing you nay want to monitor that as well?.

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04 Mar 2015 @ 13:06:53 pm
Darren
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I would think that fitting Toyota original product would keep any warranty intact, I have just purchased the VX diesel and went to Toyota to have a look at the towbar parts. not much to it but the detachable version has no allowance for any adjustment, a lesson I had to learn on my amarok. I think in todays world don't mess with the fitment, most Toyotas outsource fitment but you have to use a genuine product.

As for batteries 4x4 forum has a few whizzkids personally CTEK seems absolutely over-priced with massive claims of increased battery life, I use a Hawkins smart charger at 25% of the price and no problems yet.

I have a brad-Harrison plug on my Rok and I think with the distance from the battery it is advisable to go thick.
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04 Mar 2015 @ 13:33:57 pm
Boens
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In my Cruiser and Prado, I had dual battery systems with National Lunar controllers and never any troubles. To add to the mix, I had 2 deep cycle 105's in my Echo, which were also topped up from the towing vehicle. However, I found that I needed a manual switch, which could switch the alterator over to the deep cycles, because left to its own devices, the vehicle charging system went to slow charge when the main batteries were full. Qualified auto electricians, approved by Toyota did the installations.

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04 Mar 2015 @ 21:39:08 pm
Bushbug
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Great info. I am going through the Tow Bar choice. I cannot accept a fixed position as the only choice. Thule claim to be Toyota approved. Most Fitment centers will refer you to a fixed position Thule that cannot handle to much Tow weight. My discussions ended up with the MD of Thule and the attached photo of the right Tow Bar. Now I am waiting on price !.
I agree C tek is the popular choice Hawkins or N Luna.
Boens, very interested in your comment of having to switch the Alternator over to the Trailer Batteries to get full charge.
A) what did the Engine etc. run off ?
B) Did you have the Trailer Batteries wired in sequence ( + to + & - to -)
Was there a monitor to show charge ?

Sorry but my skills in handling the Forum are limited.
The Thule Photo is sitting under New Forum Topics as "Tow Bar Tule" and in My Gallery !! Dorf !

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04 Mar 2015 @ 21:47:36 pm
Anonymous

Brian, just make sure you are in "advance" (above your text), then click on Refresh Galleries, click on the drop down box where it says "no gallery selected"  choose your picture, and then type a description, and "post reply" .

Hope you get it.

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04 Mar 2015 @ 21:51:14 pm
Bushbug
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Thanks for the Guidence
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04 Mar 2015 @ 21:52:57 pm
Anonymous

Only a pleasure, glad to be of helplaughing

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04 Mar 2015 @ 21:59:02 pm
Brommer
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Bushbug, it s wise to have a dual battery charging system,in my opinion anyways, as it is able to charge night or day, rain or sunshine, and doing it well can give you 40 Amps of charging from Prado, but it needs control.. you can opt for any charging method you want, each have benefits and also their disadvantages..

It will not help having solar panels whe touring during the day, let the alternator, which is the most capable and reliable charging method, do the work while driving..

Again, you wont need 16mm cables, the voltage drop is not that much in cables anyways, it is 1, in the battery, and 2, in the charge system.. Have seen systems charge 50 Amps using 6mm cables for a while before settling down..

 

In Boens system, it became worse over time, hence bypassing the system, which can eventually overload alternator in certain cases, so bypassing control is risky.. my opinion and believe...

Going DC to DC has other risks of electronics failing, and 2, it is actually slow if looking at mostsystems are rated 20 Amps, but measured mostly in the heat supplyibg only 12 to 14 Amps.. DC o DC big fame is the higher voltage claim, which is reached only after 9 hours on a single battery if charging at 12 Amp and reducing anyways over time..  this is if battery was depleted, but driving whole day will not influence your results too much..

 

You can use alternator to jack up battery quicker, esoecially if going to use 2 or 3 additional batteries in system..

It is when driving minimal when a high powered charging system will make the difference, one where you hit 40 Amps charging..YES, solar is a great supplementary charging if standing longer, but your car can always charge, and the faster the system, the less engine running tije required..

 

If driving long periods, all systems should work fine and get the job done, then you only need to look at best reliability, and then the battery quality and cycle life design, if you do a lot of trips, get a proper system, as you did buy a proper vehicle for the purpose

 

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04 Mar 2015 @ 22:22:45 pm
Boens
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Bushbug, we toured Botswana, malawi, zambia, tanzania and Kenia. We HAD to have a means to charge batteries, to keep the Minus 40's going and we did NOT have solar panels. My vehicle, charged 2 batteries under normal Toyota systems in the engine bay. If "unswitched", a small charge went through a nNational Lunar controller, to the 2 deep cycle batteries in the trailer, which were coupled in parrallel. This could NOT recharge them from a run down condition, during a day trip. However, when I then manually switched the alternator from the normal batteries to the trailer batteries, the alternator gave its normal max charge to bring them up rather quickly. I had a small, simple little monitor connected to the trailer batteries to switch back when they were full.

nothing became worse over time. It just took careful management of 2 sets of batteries through 1 alterator with ample capacity. Nothing was bypassed.

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04 Mar 2015 @ 22:56:00 pm
Bushbug
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Hi Mars & Boens,

I will have a Duel Battery system in engine bay, run off a N Luna or Hawkins system.
Now the Camp Trailer will have a further 2 Deep Cycle Batteries. Now if I get to a AC powered Camp Site no problem. But, if not The Trailer Batteries still must get charged.
I was questioning Boens method of "switch the alterator over to the deep cycles, because left to its own devices, the vehicle charging system went to slow charge when the main batteries were full".

I still don't understand how this worked--what ran the Engine etc. when Alternator was switched to the Trailer.
Where was the Dual Battery system and where was the Switch Over to Trailer.

If there was no Duel Battery system was the Alternator charging 2 Batteries directly, if so were the Batteries Identical and then how did switch to Trailer happen and was the vehicle running off front batteries.
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05 Mar 2015 @ 05:54:40 am
Boens
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Remember Bushbug, I am not the expert, the auto electrical guys were. However what I understood, when the charging was switched (manually) to the trailer batteries, the vehicle batteries still supplied power to the vehicle. Without lights etc during daylight, power consumption is not high.

the trailer batteries always were powering the trailer fridges in my case, so the alternator, when switched to trailer, charged the 2 deep cycles while they were powering the little freezers. In this mode, the alternator easily brought the trailer batteries up to full charge.

the switch was a rugged rotary type switch, which offered 3 options, vehicle batteries, trailer batteries or both. 

The problem was when the trailer was parked for a couple of days, the deep cycles got no charge. Solar panels would have been very nice.

Lastly, when the trailer was unplugged, or switched out, the 2 vehicle batteries were both charged as if they were one big battery. They were identical, but do not need to be.

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05 Mar 2015 @ 07:11:38 am
Brommer
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Boens, dit is die cole hersee wat jou laat stadiger laai het, hul kontamineer maklik op die punt en jy verloor stroom.. met nuwe skakelaar het dinge verbeter aangesien dit nuwe kontakpunte het.. jy moes dit bypass om ander skakelaar in te sit, dus bypass jy die NL sisteem...engine battery can run engine etc for quite a while without alternator..

 

 

Agre, solar is nice when standing.. rotary switch is a method,but i prefer good automatic control, but each uses his on ideas and if working welk for you, 100%..

If you have 2 to 3 batteries in system, just try to take a powerful enough system to do the job..having to drive forever is always a pain..

 

 

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