The moral of the story is to never ever buy a second hand caravan unless expert opinion was obtained on the condition of the wood.

I had an upgrade done to my van, and believe me, it is not cheap.

I am not sure a re-build is worth the trouble and expenses. Caravan building is a specialist job, and unfortunately there is no demand for amateur efforts in the market place. It will have to go for roadworthy, and that is when wear on the coupling and that terrible test where lateral movement of the suspension is consideredas as well as the need for a visit to the weigh bridge. My advice is to not throw good money after bad. Stick to the brand names. However, if you insist on pushing through, do your homework properly, not the way you did it upon buying the van.

Herman, the trailer will not remain a trailer.  It is a similar action to buying a bakkie and building a minibus taxi on it - not allowed. The description on the registration document will be trailer whereas the actual description is that of a caravan. You will not be able to sell it as such, nor will you be able to get it through road worthy or pass through a border post. In fact, you will be using a fraudulently licensed vehicle, an offence for which the fine and possible confiscation has just recently been amended. Because the cops will immediately identify it as home built they will simply enter the registration on their in-car computer system and identify it as a trailer, and there the holiday ends. Home built trailers and caravans does not get registered easily these days. You need to be an authorised/duly licensed trailer or caravan builder in order to be able to have such vehicles registered.

Herman, I think the operative word is "bolted". Once bolted it becomes permanent. When selling any type of property you cannot remove bolted stuff subsequent to the sale. It forms part of the item sold. When tied down, it is a load - different story. Fine, you can tie down your gypsey home onto your trailer, or any other load for that matter. Your friend has probably never been scrutinised by the authorities. It is like erecting a car port with plastic sheeting at your home. You never submitted plans, and simply went ahead. Twenty years later your neighbour has an alteration done, and the building inspector cannot recollect ever scrutinising your car port. He calls for the plans, and you are instructed to remove it and pay arrears property taxes. You cannot win. The authorities have a thick book to throw at you.

So you sell it, and the problem comes and bites the buyer. Next thing you have the choice of settling the dispute out of court, or defending it taking the chance of losing and paying the claimant's legal costs on top of the damages. Not clever to take shortcuts where there are specific regulations applicable.

Easy rider, do you have children? If so, how old are they?

Why are piggy-back campers on bakkies not bolted but strapped to the load bed? Containers are not bolted to trailers as in bolts and nuts. We are now playing with words. I was taught "when in doubdt, expext the answer you least like".

Easy rider, you are asking "for what possible reason could it be illegal?" You should ask the lisencing authority that question. It is always best to do thorough homework before deciding.

By the way, referring to the expert that gave you the green light to buy that rotten carcass - I would have been beyond bitter and twisted! Giving advice when he is in fact what I was once told what an expert is - a drip under pressure.

Sean, from what I gathered above, you are someone with knowledge go ahead, build your gypsy style trailer, and enjoy you hard work. 

Many ways one can improvise,  as long as it is legal and safe.

Jy kan coldroom panelle gebruik vir die mure baie sterk en lig en maklik om meet werk.

Easy rider wrote:

Kanneman, Ha Ha a drip under pressure indeed - Ja I am past being gutted. Its done, and is what it is. I have an expensive chassis in front of my garage.
But we are South Africans, we don't do things because they are easy; we do things because they are hard...... and have heart attacks and go bankrupt :)

I have seen ablution(mobile toilet trailers) around, and have looked at the plate, they are registered as trailers and are clamped to the trailer, IE slide on.The one I saw appears to tip. But it was on its trailer and being used where I saw it.

I cannot see there being a problem with a slide on camper. It can be held on with chains, clamps and or bolted, it matters not as long as the load is secure. There may be some provisions for a fire extinguisher and proper gas and electrical installation, because it is used it to live in, but thats just common sense.

Perhaps somewhere in the legislation there is a definition of a caravan. But surely on can legally transport a cabin as proposed by Herman

Dit not have an idea of what you meant by Gypsy van but since I saw you profile pic I see where you are going.

Trailer stays a trailer as long as whatever you put on it is not fixed. Bolts and nuts is fixed. But if you were to use twistlock similar to that on the corners of freight containers think you will be okay then.

Recently had to sell my caravan. You started something in my head now. I too have a trailer that can be addapted to something like this.

Thinking thinking thinking...............

neef Herman wrote:

From what I understand is, if it does not form part or become an integral part, thus a permanent fixture, the method of securing the load is not defined.
Maar dit is my interpretasie.

Herman ek dink U is heeltemmal reg... EG Containers on container flat-bed trailers are essentially bolted down?

You guys got it wrong  - an expert pronounced "ex-spurt" = has been drop of water = nothing!

I also bought a Scout 3 years ago and it had woodrot at the front window and on the bottom left front. (This is a known problem on these models).That was all fixed and expertly done and costed me around R9000 with full service and reseal of van. Quite happy with the van at the moment.

Welcome, Yes you can build it.

This was build on a Sprite Supreme chassis.

Be prepared to work long hours.

Plan 6-7 steps in advance.

It will not be cheap, but you will have something that fits your needs better.

More on our van: Only the chassis is still original. everthing else is new. It was build out of ISO panels (I would maybe concider something else for fuiture projects as it is slightly heavier).Althought every one hear Koppisols donkeys and the other noises that cause the donkey noise) Very isolated.

On the legal aspect: I would build it and leave it on the exciting papers. reason; in Limpopo they will not know the difference. I attempted to do mine legal and decided against it. The registration papers state- Sprite Model- Unknown rebuild. It does not indicate a Gross weight only a Tare.

O, yes, I have used the old caravans door and acrilic windows (which I intend changing soon) Dimension wise Wx stayed the same, Lx 2cm shorter, Height increased.(did not want to do the popup roof thing)

Easy rider wrote:

As far as the National road traffic regulations is concerned, there is absolutely nothing about "trailers" or the way a camper/cabin etc is fixed to a "trailer".

The definition given is as follows:
“caravan”
means an enclosed vehicle which is designed or adapted solely to live in and which is
drawn by another vehicle;
(Definition of “caravan” inserted by regulation 2(c) of Government Notice R881 of 2004).
So using a registered trailer and constructing a cabin/camper on that trailer seems all good, no matter how it is fastened.As long as the vehicle is not designed or adapted "solely" to live in. Which of course its not. Its a trailer with a cabin on it, that can be taken off.

Coool so what would be the difference (legally) between my camper ad a Gypsy built so-called-caravan

This started out life as a flatbed trailer, some shutter-board and a roof-top tent

Handling wind not to bad. We have had one instance where we had a cross wind from the front where it affected fuel consumption (maybe it would have with any caravan) Stabillity wise no problem. Use the truck passing your vehicle test.

The interior and alot of other construction was done with Connect it blocks and Aluminium squire pipe. All screws Stainlessteel, Floor is marine ply treated with a really generious amount of sealer from below. (under body paint) All other wood- meranti (not that we used alot of wood.

Interior is not complete (we need to stop camping in order to finnish it). It is camp-a-bill. Inside we went for a proper double bed (Not Island type) bunk bed, proper easy to load plastic crates in their own shelfs.Access to kitchen via inside. Access to fridge without entering van. Sorry, trying to load Gallery but failing. Most photos is a little on the old side.

O yes, we have used a model according to scale (Made like a "draadkar") for planning and then we kept to it.

Easy rider wrote:

Diddo,

Thanks for the pic and advice. Looks like a good job you've done there.I will have to go with ply to keep the weight down. I want to go with the gypsy style molly croft type thing with sliding windows, just because I like the ventilation and extra light, also not a fan of pop tops any longer.

Diddo,how does your van tow re wind resistance and do you have any plans/layouts pics of your interior to share?

Sitnievasnie, you are not supposed to post pictures like that on a Monday. Your setup just screams go camping:) I drove landies for eleven years and did over 700 000 km's in two of them, great vehicles those defenders..
Is that the kitchen at the tailgate of your trailer?
I cannot see any difference between your setup and a gypsy trailer. The whole thing goes around that word "solely" in the definition. Solely means the one and only and exclusive, (in this case purpose).

Hehehehehe........See MORE PHOTOS

No thats the top awning and some other gear.

I use a chuck box (re-purposed fishing tackle backpack) on the utility table.

Pretty much everythin is in ammo boxes on the right side (inside) and the bed is down the L side, moves to the middle when static camping.

Everything ammo boxes, cooking station ETC is in rip-stop covers so who cares if it get's wet, there is no damage.

Converts from a roadside stealth-camper to a self-contained static pitch base camp

Diddo, you said "Inside we went for a proper double bed (Not Island type) bunk bed" If I understand you correctly the partner have to climb over the other one to get in our out of bed since one side is flush against a wall, whereas with an island bed each partner has access from his/her particular side. I assume your "proper size" refers to the 137x188 cm double bed size. When we were much younger we enjoyed the over one another climb thing in the caravan, but as the years go by one's acrobatic ability definately tapers off! 

Think the floor was 9 or 11mm.

It is now +/- 2 years later. Everything seems intact with no moving of panels or streching/folding.

We have changed somethings, like the possition of powerpoint. Kitchen door hinges were made of plastic/ changed to aluminium.

I concider this as an ongoing project, improving her fixing there.

Some of my next jobs that I consider:

Windows changed to sliding aluminium kind, strengthening the top bunkbed.

Medium term: axle replacement/ upgrade to 1.8t and a new entrance door.

If you want to do this as a cost saving - do not continue. It is exspensive (you might find a reasonable secondhand van cheaper)

If you want to do this as a unique  project where you build it the way you want.

You are not happy with the constuction of exsisting vans and want to do better.......then go for it. It is hard but rewarding work. Listen to advice from every one. Take that advice and use it (or don`t use it) for the better.

Lets talk weight:

You could also build lighter than we did. (and not pay a slight weight penalty)

The ISO panels is 0.8mm Chromadex-25mm Polistyrene and 0.8mm Chromadex plate sandwich.- After the build I think that this was a little bit of overkill.

The roof was also 0.8mm Chromadex plate outside (could go for 0.5mm)

Buy Sikaflex (or equvalent very good sealer) in boxes not tubes.(I think we used +/- 30 tubes at R230 each)

You do not need that much tools, what we used most was a dril with 4.8mm dril bid, phneumatic popriviter, and electric saw with aluminium cut blade. (only tool we bought specially for this project was a pipe bender)

Easy rider, I do not know where in Limpopo you stay, but I hope you are close to a larger town. (make it easier to get supplies if needed and it might be cheaper)

You guys.....

You are simply.......

Well

EVIL!.........Nasty evil!

Take it from me it's sure is an ongoing project... Actually better described as a never-ending-project.. I don't give two hoots what other's may think, I have great fun, cause I built it and it suits me, and I've had umpteen caravans / trailers / tents / bush trailers, and none worked out for me...

Anyway back to why you're such EVIL gentlemen..

I got a 2 quad trailer knocking about, aint been used in jonks and jonks... Something like 4m long  x 2.5/6 wide...

Now I prefer the ambiance of a tent to a caravan, so If I was going to make a Gipsey van I would do a "Voortrekker wagon" type Gipsey van... Solid at the front & back, rear entry but canvas over hoops for a main body......

Bin thinkin along these lines a'plenty... Now you nasty nasty guys got me all hot-n-bothered under the collar....

BTW, My camper... No plans and finished in one weekend..

Nice post, please keep me updated...

Kanneman wrote:

Diddo, you said "Inside we went for a proper double bed (Not Island type) bunk bed" If I understand you correctly the partner have to climb over the other one to get in our out of bed since one side is flush against a wall, whereas with an island bed each partner has access from his/her particular side. I assume your "proper size" refers to the 137x188 cm double bed size. When we were much younger we enjoyed the over one another climb thing in the caravan, but as the years go by one's acrobatic ability definately tapers off! 

A proper double bed of 190x137cm.

Do not have to climb over, can climb out at bottom.(but seldom do, I share some parts with a camel)

It is do-able. We started with this (think yours also look more or less like this after checking for wood rot.

.

We then started everything from this

Diddo wrote:

A proper double bed of 190x137cm.

Do not have to climb over, can climb out at bottom.(but seldom do, I share some parts with a camel)

And your age?

Yip something like that, but walls from canvas. For me what's inside is for sleeping and bare minimum meal prep, (if it,s raining ETC).

When I'm camping I really don't want to be at home, so I rather like having to work my way roud difficulties like grotty weather..

Easy rider wrote:

Thanks for your replies guys,

Building a gypsy style caravan is not easy,(nothing worthwhile ever is!), but it is not rocket science.

For those interested here is a link to whet your appetite.

http://www.instructables.com/howto/gypsy+wagons/

Hennie, the worst rot on my scout was on the upright timbers at the rear. The water seems to have got in on the top rear corners, and also through the rear door hinges. This is bad news as you cannot really see it unless you take off the aluminum cladding which is glued on, or remove the rear paneling behind the cupboard.

The rear door is pretty heavy and hangs on these studs. I have noticed that the 100X50X3mm open channel chassis is actually bent down by 50 mm on the cupboard side and 75mm on the fridge side because the timber superstructure failed, and the chassis channel had to support all of the weight at the rear of the van.

Yes, the back where the hinges for the door is situated is also a commen place for woodrot but we did check mine as well and all was fine.

Wish you luck with your project.

Kanneman,

I know that the preference in South Africa is towards an island bed.

For use it had to be a proper bed and proper cupboard

Most Sprite vans (if not all) normally has 2x small cupboards and a bouble bed or a very narrow bed to incorporate  reasonable cupboard space.

It is just that on a Narrower caravan  (and it is my own take on it) an island bed  waste valuable space (especially with pop up roof and taller persons. I could never stand next to the bed on the older van).

Easy rider wrote:

Yip Diddo, mine looked something like that too. I was too depressed to take pictures, a sight I do not care to remember.

The chassis on the scout is very minimal; Basically just two 100X50X3mm open channels in an a frame with the two channels bolted to the axle. Thats it. All of the other structure for the floor comes from runners under the floor which actually rest on the axle. This van came out with a 490kg Tare.

Have a look at this guys gypsy wagon out of ply;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/koalamate/albums/72157628594806335

I kind of like that gypsy wagon.

You might get attention when pulling into a caravan park,(but who cares).

 Avoid loosing the roof by nailling it to the sides properly with that profile. 

Add some extra nails in your camping inventory.